Dragon 368 - Death Matters, Design & Developments

[BlackMoria]

I think what they are trying to say is that the players are not as invested in beginning characters. You can be attached to your character from the get go but your level of investment in the character is very low starting out. It is through gameplay, the storyline, the interaction with the other characters that one becomes invested in the character.

 

[Nebulous]

Join the club! It was only fairly recently that I learned that failed death saves last the entire encounter, and don't start from scratch when you get back up.

At least a short rest will do the trick to reset the track.

If not for Enworld, myself and every player in my group would still not know this. It maybe should have been emphasized in the PHB...it's extremely important.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Join the club! It was only fairly recently that I learned that failed death saves last the entire encounter, and don't start from scratch when you get back up.

I also fairly recently learned this... by reading today's article.

 

[Shroomy]

Me too. I guess I better look through the PHB again. Luckily, the specific situation hasn't come up since we haven't had consecutive fights were someone failed a death save.

 

[justanobody]

Certainly, but would you be as attached to a 3rd-level character that you've played for a couple of months compared to a 25th-level character that you've played for almost two years? If not, you aren't that attached to the lower-level character.

Yes. I treat them all equally. No matter level 30 or level 1, I want them to live for the next adventure just as much as the other. Other people clearly do not, and that is why I have seen so many people want to discard a character or let it die, because they don't like it. They should have been playing something they liked to begin with, or stick it out to see if it gets better. There will likely be a time it dies and you get to trade-in, but you don't have to look for the opportunity to kill it off at a low level just to try something else.

If you aren't going to care about the work you put into the character at the beginning to design something to play with, then what different does all those other levels mean?

Higher levels you really only lose the character as you have gotten to enjoy all that playing time with it.

Lower levels you just spent time creating this character for it to die the first combat and have to do it all over again. Barely getting to put your work creating the character to use. You also have that at higher levels with creating a new character, but you at least had a chance to play with it for a while. Though that does not discount that you do not even want to lose the work put into each of those new levels since its original creation.

What happens when you don't start at level one, and say start at level 10. It is still a heroic tier character, so would you be happier to lose a level 10 vs level 11 character? I think many would be, but what about losing a new level 10 vs a new level 1.

I think the level isn't the point, but losing something that you have barely got to use no matter what level you are at is the sticking point for losing a character. The article seems to say losing a character of low level like it means one you just created is better than losing one you have been playing for a while. Neither is better, but losing characters happens.

So no matter the level I lose a character, I would step outside and have a cigarette and think what went wrong to prevent that the next time.

 

[Felon]

So, the article starts out by rejecting the MMO notion that death is passe'. They think death should have a distinct dramatic impact.

But what we ultimately get is raising someone over the course of eight hours, spending some gold, and a "rez sickness" that is clearly a carryover from MMO's.

Say, anyone remember when the designers were telling us that Raise Dead had a special requirement that it only worked on characters who hadn't fulfilled their destiny yet?

 

[Obryn]

Don't feel bad, I got that wrong too for the longest time.

Hey, until reading here, I figured that a successful death throw stabilizes you, like in 3e. Not the case! Nope, it just means you don't get closer to dying this round and you're making another one next round.

I would have had 2-3 more PC deaths by now, I think.

-O

 

[Verys Arkon]

Well, guess its true what they say... I DO learn something new every day . Good to know. I wonder if we did a poll how many people were using '3-strikes' wrong?

 

[MarkB]

Yes. I treat them all equally. No matter level 30 or level 1, I want them to live for the next adventure just as much as the other. Other people clearly do not, and that is why I have seen so many people want to discard a character or let it die, because they don't like it. They should have been playing something they liked to begin with, or stick it out to see if it gets better. There will likely be a time it dies and you get to trade-in, but you don't have to look for the opportunity to kill it off at a low level just to try something else.

If you aren't going to care about the work you put into the character at the beginning to design something to play with, then what different does all those other levels mean?

Well, usually they'd represent a great deal of real-time and game-time during which your character was interacting with other PCs and various NPCs, forming friendships and enmities, achieving goals, finding new aspirations, expressing and developing various traits and personality quirks, and generally developing into a true individual.

To me (and I accept that YMMV), that is what makes a character truly come alive, truly become valued - their interactions with others. In many cases, the character will develop in a completely different way than I envisioned, and usually be all the better for it.

Compared to that, the few minutes spent putting numbers together on paper, and even the few hours of periodic idle contemplation that go into creating a personality and backstory, are a miniscule investment, and one I can easily replicate in my own time. Creating a brand-new character is a piece of cake - but creating anew a place for that character within the party and the gameworld is a far larger investment.

 

[Jhaelen]

Boy that is a terrible thing to say or think. I get attached to my character from the moment I start playing, otherwise I wouldn't try to play.

Losing a character is always a big thing, but not something that should make anyone depressed. You should strive to keep your characters alive, but it doesn't mean you will always succeed. I hope people ARE attached to their character even at the lowest levels.

It's similar for me. I think, I'm actually more attached to new characters than old ones. If a new character dies before I got to really play him that's a big disappointment. It's sad because of the lost potential and the waste of time I spent thinking up the concept and background.

As a character gets older I tend to get bored by the concept and increasingly eager to try something else, so I rarely mind the character dying.

My main investment in a character really happens when I create him. I rarely invest much later on. To keep my interest in the character he has to change and evolve a lot during his career.

I also enjoy creating characters just for the sake of creating them. That's probably part of the reason I prefer DMing to playing. As a DM I get to create and try lots of characters and concepts