Dragon 368 - Death Matters, Design & Developments

[justanobody]

Well, usually they'd represent a great deal of real-time and game-time during which your character was interacting with other PCs and various NPCs, forming friendships and enmities, achieving goals, finding new aspirations, expressing and developing various traits and personality quirks, and generally developing into a true individual.

To me (and I accept that YMMV), that is what makes a character truly come alive, truly become valued - their interactions with others. In many cases, the character will develop in a completely different way than I envisioned, and usually be all the better for it.

Compared to that, the few minutes spent putting numbers together on paper, and even the few hours of periodic idle contemplation that go into creating a personality and backstory, are a miniscule investment, and one I can easily replicate in my own time. Creating a brand-new character is a piece of cake - but creating anew a place for that character within the party and the gameworld is a far larger investment.

Putting the numbers down isn't that hard at all, but I must be investing more into character creation than others. I go ahead and decide goals for the character, why it is adventuring, what it hopes to accomplish, etc when I create the character. Not just looking at it as the numbers on the page, but that is the last thing I do after a good while of creation for the character.

Why am I playing the elf? It isn't for some bow bonus, or something else in the mechanics. What does this elf think of others that he might meet, etc.

I design my character then worry about the sheet. Therefore the character has had much work placed into it from the start that is more than just leveling could do. the character will grow and change over tie, but you have to have a place to start from rather than Character X and after a few adventures he gains a personality and such. They are already there from the start. Adventuring adds more to the character story, and the levels just alter the character sheet.

You what you do during game time to gain those levels is the reward for that work. A beginning character has all the work and no gain so is of greater loss.

@Jhaelen: It isn't always the character that bores you, but the routine of the story sometimes. That is where little breaks for one-shots with a new character for a single session help to break the monotony, and maybe give the DM some recharge time so the adventures don't get stale.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Even when your character is dying, the death saving throw you make at the end of your turn has at least a 1 in 20 chance of getting you back on your feet. As a result, a player stays involved with the game even when his or her PC is down.

It's odd -- IMC, we have two warforged characters who are, as my DM put it, "Immune to death," in that they can never fail a death save. In this case, the throw becomes meaningless, and it has lead to a lot of boredom for those unconscious warforged characters. They go to grab a snack, have someone else roll if nothing else. The chance of getting a 20 is so low that they get bored.

This is more a knock against that warforged design than against the death rules, though.

The time my swordmage rolled a 20 on his death save, I thought it was very bizarre that he was "not quite dead yet," and only just kind of half-realized it. It seemed very hollow, very metagame. Not that I complained, though.

When I finish a fight and realize it took three-quarters of my healing surges, it feels like a much tougher fight than the one that ate up ten wand charges in my last 3E game. And when I go into a fight with only one or two surges left, I play a lot more cautiously. I know that I could drop and not be able to get up.

I find this to be pretty true, but I'm not a huge fan of it. Because of this, I have been tempted, for the first time ever, to have a 15 minute adventuring day. Admittedly, the combats were running quite tough, but still...I rest when I'm near death, not when I'm dead!

(permanent) character death means you can kiss your campaign's story continuity good-bye

...I'm disagreeing. I *like* making new characters. I have friends who do, too. A story should be robust enough to adapt and change to the cast that is before it, even if one character's "story" is over.

Personally, for this, I like the "death flag." You can raise it for the prospect of permanent death in an encounter that is key to you, but if it's not raised, you won't die. That way everyone knows when the stakes are really very high vs. when it's just a kobold mop-up.

 

[Spatula]

So, the article starts out by rejecting the MMO notion that death is passe'. They think death should have a distinct dramatic impact.

But what we ultimately get is raising someone over the course of eight hours, spending some gold, and a "rez sickness" that is clearly a carryover from MMO's.

When has raise dead not had a "rez sickness" in D&D?

The 1e raise dead took 1 round to cast and cost no gold at all.

 

[questing gm]

A short rest will do it.

Anyone can point out where the definitive ruling for this is?

I checked under the Death and Dying section of the PHB and it only says, 'Rest'.

There's nothing on the errata too.

 

[SableWyvern]

Anyone can point out where the definitive ruling for this is?

I checked under the Death and Dying section of the PHB and it only says, 'Rest'.

That looks pretty definitive to me, unless you have reason to believe that a Short Rest isn't a Rest.

 

[questing gm]

That looks pretty definitive to me, unless you have reason to believe that a Short Rest isn't a Rest.

Well, it could be an extended rest considering the trauma that the body goes through from dying to live and well.

 

[SableWyvern]

Well, it could be an extended rest considering the trauma that the body goes through from dying to live and well.

I'm sure it does mean extended rest as well.

If you really need a reference, try p263 under Rest and Recovery:

...you can take one of two types of rest: a short rest or an extended rest.

So, "rest" is the superset of "extended rest" and "short rest".

 

[stonegod]

This is more a knock against that warforged design than against the death rules, though.

Warforged aren't really supposed to die, though, unless destroyed. If their 3.5 flavor is to be maintained. I agree, however, that means the death save portion is less "engaging".

The time my swordmage rolled a 20 on his death save, I thought it was very bizarre that he was "not quite dead yet," and only just kind of half-realized it. It seemed very hollow, very metagame. Not that I complained, though.

I always see it as that action movie trope where the knocked down guy realizes he can't go down yet and surges back to his/her feet...

 

[Knight Otu]

Say, anyone remember when the designers were telling us that Raise Dead had a special requirement that it only worked on characters who hadn't fulfilled their destiny yet?

Well, I remember Keith Baker (rather than designer) saying that, and later qualifying what he said as paraphrasing, in that Raise Dead doesn't mention destinies. Does that count?

 

[yesnomu]

Say, anyone remember when the designers were telling us that Raise Dead had a special requirement that it only worked on characters who hadn't fulfilled their destiny yet?

I remember. It got taken out because the simulationists complained.

Damn sims. Narrativists fo' lyfe!