Dragon Challenge help my friend B.A.D.D. !

Epametheus said:
Does Anti-magic shell negate DR? Yes.

Does it matter? Considering that the dragon has a 40 something AC and over 700 HP, no.

If you can cut it down to just the fighters being able to hurt you, you're fine. At best, they'll do about 15-20 points a hit -- and only 2 or so attack per round from them have any chance of hitting.

Considering that they'll have a max ac around 25 or so without their magic, your dragon can just 20 point power attack them all death (don't forget to take cleave).

If it comes down to a duel, force a grapple with the poor bastard. You'll have like a +60 something on the check (base attack bonus + Str + a +16 bonus for being colossal). Come to think of it, the Snatch feat gives your dragon improved grab with its bite attack. As a side note, if ya want to grab someone but not spend all effort on grappling them, you'll take a -20 penalty. Bringing you down to a mere +45 or so. You can't bloody lose the grapple, so who cares?

You've got 10 feats or so to work with.. Fly-by (which WILL work with Harm spells, BTW; fly-by works with anything that's a partial action, making it much cooler than Spring attack), Wingover (turn around as a free action, which is VERY important for a Clumsy flier), Hover (between this and wingover, your hulking brute can fake having Good manueverability), Large & in-charge (sort of nice.. much better if your dragon is built with point-buy or something similar so that it has a positive Dex mod, in which case take Combat Reflexes to make it evil), Power Attack (a genuine must), Cleave (trust me, you'll use it), Multi-attack (maximizes guarantee of off-attacks hitting), and maybe something really bizarre.. improved unarmed strike & then Stun Fist to get Stun-bites that impose like DC 35 fort saves?

For the more magical route...
Time Stop, MIRACLE, Expeditious Retreat (flight speed of 400+ woohoo!), HEAL, Maze, Greater Dispelling, Mordy's Disjunction, Gate (get some bitchin' allies -- you can force a Solar's obediance with this puppy, and it doesn't have to be paid if everything dies in 19 rounds (or better yet, everything else AND it dies)), Horrid Wilting, Haste, Improved Invisibility (combo with Non-detection, if possible -- they'll need to pass DC 35 checks just to see the damn dragon), Sunburst (don't underestimate an area-effect blindness spell), Teleport, Iron Body (50/+3 Dr, +6 Str, -6 Dex, immune to lots of things, including crits), Prismatic Wall (grab people and throw them into it), Divine Favor (+6 Luck bonus to attack and damage; not bad for a 1st level spell...), Righteous Might (Colossal to Earth-shattering?), Destruction, Wail of the Banshee, Negative Energy Protection, Contingency (Heal), protection from elements (Cold)...

My own evaluation of the dragon's odds is that it can only lose if the player allows it to. Something that can kill the Tarrasque for breakfast shouldn't be prey for human scum.

Honestly, a great wyrm red or gold is closest anything in the system comes to completely unstoppable.

I already mentioned the magical route. A real wizard or sorcerer will do it better, and have a better initiative to actually actually use it. The dragon would be just as dead as a normal group facing crazy death dealing chain time stops. Since it works just as well for the group, an all out magical attack that defeats anyone it hits actually works in the dragon's disfavor, since a party with multiple initiative rolls and better dex will probably pull it off first.

However, AMF is great for a dragon - if it can enlarged enough to protect it. Otherwise, characters will probably end up dodging about it's surface to attack the unprotected areas with full power, while the dragon's magical abilities and defenses are negated. Also, Adamantite weapons and armor, along with certain prestige classes, might negate some of the pain of the AMF. If it can keep a big enough field up though, I'd place my money on the dragon.
 

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Somebody said that "any 20th level fighter worth his salt is going to be able to close with a flier" -- the thing is that the movement rate from Fly is 90', but the dragon has a 200' movement rate.

As has been suggested already in this topic -- USE it!

Also keep in mind that abilities like True Seeing and See Invisible have a range of 120' in the former and (assuming 20th level characters) 300' in the latter. Stay out of that range and the Improved Invis will actually do something for you -- if you don't, it won't.

It's tough to describe particular tactics because of the high-level spells being thrown around, like Wish and Miracle. One interesting Wish/Limited Wish possibility which I would allow, as a DM, would be to change my breath weapon; I think a Limited Wish properly cast should allow a dragon to change his breath weapon from Fire to Cold damage for a few minutes, don't you?

And for gods' sake, put a ring/amulet/whatever of Spell Turning on your Dragon. He should be able to afford it.
 

Anti-Magic Field...

Assuming: AMF "centred on the caster" can be centred on any "part" of a colossal caster (something neither allowed nor forbidden by the spell description, I think)...

It occurs to me, that if I was a great wyrm red dragon with access to AMF, I could centre it on one of my claws then use that claw to snatch up one victim at a time, disabling each victim's buff/protection spells & rendering them virtually helpless while I take my time killing him & dealing with his allies.

Plus, if the line of fire of any magical attack against me crossed the 10' sphere surrounding my claw, its neutered.
 

By an assessment of CR's it's obvious that the dragon shold lose in this situation (and only use about 1/6 of the party's resources) so with the party going all out the dragon is in dire trouble, as was a crying fool to agree to those terms anyway.

However, to win. Well, the terms of this fight say that fields extend from the skin, so that is the dragons only really chance.

A contigence set to, when I am targeted with a spell producing an AM field is his best hope (going so why towards negating the problem of him getting killed before), however this will interacted weirdly with the timestops - (by my reading all spells will go off at the end of the duration, but as the contingency's condition has been filled it should go off?)

Then the dragon has 190 minutes to kill everyone.

However, as the party will immediatly use every evasion spell known to man, and the Dragon has lost his access to spells he won't be able to find him. There the dragon needs some wizard cohorts to use use contingency as well. One of them anchors the formation, and the other two step, use dectect inviability or whatver is needed to paint the targets for the dragon.

The followers sole duty is to prevent the party from killing the spotters.

Finally the dragon needs Heal and anti-magic shell in just about every slot he can stuff them in.

However I don't think he will be able to get the adventures before the spells he has run out, but he can chase them around for a bit.
 

I have a big doubt about the dragon attaks / round:

- His base attack bonus is 49.
- His weapons are 2 claws (4 when flying), 1 bite, 2 wings (when not flying), 1 tail

My doubt is:

Does he have 6 attacks/round at +49 (bite, 2 claws, 2 wings, tail) or his attacks are any of his natural weapons at +49/+44/+39/+34/+29/+24/+19/+14/+9/+4 (10 attacks)?

[]s
 

You don't get multiple attacks from BAB using natural weapons. The Dragon gets 1 bite, 2 claws, ect. regardless of a +100000 BAB.
 

AMF will not work on a large creature...Anti Magic Aura is what you want...

It wont last as long but it will cover the whole creature, no matter how big it is...

Also, an evil creature cannot gate in a good creature and FORCE it to do anything... ONLY Summon Monster spells can FORCE a creature to do anything at all... Planar Binding/Ally cannot FORCE the creature, it only allows you to BARGAIN with it (Gate works in the same way, you have to bargain with the creature called through the gate)

Another thing is that contingency spells will only work for the CASTER of the spell... That means that all of the players will NOT be able to have them. The ONLY way that a figher type could have one is for a ring or misc item to have it in there..

The Anti Magic Aura should be used to give the Dragon enough time to single out the spell casters and get rid of them. Once that is done, the rest of the party is !#@!@
 


Hmm

Some more things: I don't really expect them to use many fightertypes. They are simply not worth it at lvl20 compared to the abilities of a wizard or cleric. Neither do I expect multiclassed chars.

As for fighters closing with the dragon... And if? Stay out of single movement for them (180 ft should do), and if they charge at you ... Whack them with your full array of attacks.
He only manages to get close and unload his full attack on you if he is dimension doored or something else to you.


Add some nice effects or items that give you touch spells, preferably something with level drains (no real saves against negative levels), grapple 4 players flying with all your claws...

Uh. Would this work? Simply grapple all of them? Perhaps one with a tail too?

I don't think grappled players would survive for long...
 


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