[Dragon] Dragons need armor and weapons?

[Norfleet]

no chance in hell would i disgrace my dragons with petty stuff like that. Rings? Amulets? Bracers? You bet. Armor and weapons? You got to be kidding, he would be laughed at all the way to the back of his cave where he would be slaughtered like the fool he was.

sorry, these guys are at the top of the food chain, they don't need petty things like that to keep their house safe, they've got all the natural tools they need at hand.

So? In reality, we're at the top of the food chain, and we use weapons.

The real reason why a dragon would not use armor is because armor is exceedingly heavy, and a dragon loaded down with so much excess ironmongery would be incapable of liftoff. Flight represents a more potent defense for a dragon than armor plate, a design methodology also seen in the construction of modern (and not-so-modern) airplanes. Nobody really puts armor on a plane, because anything that would be thick, heavy, and strong enough to qualify as genuine armor capable of competing with the armor of ground-based vehicles would render the plane incapable of flight. Even the armor on helicopters, which fly in a more brute-force manner than planes, is nowhere close to the level of armor found on a tank, and is more intended for protection from light ground fire than it is for protection from other helicopters.

Weapons, on the other hand, a dragon would most certainly make use of. However, the technological base that a dragon typically operates in generally precludes the use of a JDAM, so the amount of weaponry developed for use in flight is relatively limited, and what the dragon already has is probably better than anything else which has been invented.

This is the real reason why you don't see dragons wielding weapons: Because few, if any, weapons which exist in the D&D universe can compete with what the dragon already has, without adding so much mass that the dragon is no longer capable of flight.

 

[s/LaSH]

How many humans wear armour?

Pretty darn few, is how many. I don't know if this is anywhere near realistic (the same goes for my whole argument), but if 2% of the population are soldiers of some description (I don't count militia, who generally don't have proper armour either), then only one in fifty people can be assumed to wear metal, and then only when the situation calls for it.

Dragons are much rarer than humans. They rarely face a threat on their own level - I'd class humans as a Level 1 race, perhaps towards the upper end of that; illithids as Level 2, again towards the upper end; and dragons along with fiends and celestials as Level 3. If there's a level 4, I suspect we're talking demigods.

Anyway, even 'Level 2' races are rare. Dragons even more so. And if they have a civilisation (probably organised along the terms of meeting their neighbours every century or so), and have a 'military' to deal with other Level 3 races (including other dragon factions, of course), only about one in fifty can be expected to be a member - and not even great adventurers can be expected to encounter that many dragons in their career, I believe.

Ergo, dragons might well have armour - super-magical armour that takes centuries to build, made of super-light mithril or adamantite, and enchanted with planes of pure force to protect the regions its articulation cannot protect.

OK, I haven't seen the illustration in question. I suspect it's probably over-the-top. Dragons will have armour, it will just be very rare and very light for its effect.

On the topic of weapons... I suppose they would develop those too, if they needed them. The typical dragon doesn't, because it spends all its time dealing with Level 1 races. Put locking adamantite struts and blades on its wings, though, and suddenly you've got a creature who can fly past your floating castle and leave you with two floating castles. Also, dragons are dextrous creatures in my head; I can see them using tools - maybe not traditional weapons, but a gang of wyrms using a battering ram would make dwarf kingdoms look extremely nervous.

The primary advantage of a dragon is its breath weapon, of course. That's pretty hard to beat. I suspect that, overall, weapons wouldn't be developed so much as armour. (And enchant it with Improved Evasion - can you do that now? Nothing says 'Ready to fight anything' than a dragon who can avoid other dragon's breath weapons without effort.)

But anyway, point is - dragons probably wouldn't have armour too often. One in fifty, people.

 

[Dthamilaye]

.

One difference between humans and dragons is that dragons can be in the wild naked and still be at the top of the food chain.

Put naked human in the savannah of Africa (or about any other area with wild animals) and see if he/she still is the top of the food chain...



Anyways, my dragons use anything they can. Though as said before, armour is usually too heavy. That doesn't concern bracers of armour, or any other force effect. Or even a buckler or something to get some armour effects like heavy fortification etc.

For Pit fiends and devils and such, can you imagine how much more 'interesting' they get when you put a full plate mail+5 and shield+5 on them? . Add 3.5 and bunch of spells and they might really put some fear around.

 

[Gnarlo]

The real reason why a dragon would not use armor is because armor is exceedingly heavy, and a dragon loaded down with so much excess ironmongery would be incapable of liftoff.

Looks at almost all illustrations of dragons...

Blinks....

I thought in reality they basically flew by magic anyhow; what's a few more tons?

/gnarlo!

 

[Goobermunch]

So humans are advanced tool-using beings and dragons are not?

I kind of like the idea of an adult red dragon/fighter 10 who wears a glove of storing for her collosal (or whatever it would be)+5 adamantine greatsword. Sure, she's got the spells and the breath weapon, but sometimes she likes to wade in and hit stuff.

As far as armor is concerned, I suspect that if dragons used armor, they wouldn't do so very often. When they did, it would be to deal with a real threat. That gives me an idea for an adventure. Take a high level party that should be able to take down a dragon and send them against one that knows they're coming. Give the dragon a few levels of fighter and some magical armor (to bring it up to an appropriate challenge level (that means tpk)). Well . . . maybe that's not such a good plan. I'll have to see if I can make it work.

Of course, most of my dragons have class levels too. It makes them more impressive (not that they need to be). It's fun to watch the fighters squirm when the blue dragon gets sneak attack damage during its surprise round.

--G

 

[Anthron]

I could see a Dragon that had lost the ability to fly resort to armor and weapons to keep in competition with other dragon kind.

The armor would move towards countering the advantages of flight and a dragon fighter with a colossal long bow would be quite fearsome to a flying foe.

 

[Conaill]

Armor? Not very likely. It would be too bulky, take way too long to craft, and besides... dragons are vain! No self-respecting dragon would be covering up his beautiful scales in combat. Yes I know bonuses from armor stack with natural armor, but if a dragon scale is tougher than steel, I don't see why a dragon would bother putting a layer of soft steel around his impervious scales.

Magical items that add to AC, fine... the dragon would probably use whatever items are in his hoard.

As for weapons... I don't see a dragon holding a sword in his claws. However, some way to enhance his natural weapons might be plausible. Perhaps he wears an magical sheath around a single tooth or claw, carrying some enchantments that could give the PCs a nasty surprise!

 

[Vrylakos]

Here's my thought that answers several problems, like liftoff and why wear it.

A dragon is only going to go for the best stuff.
Mithril, or any other light superstrong fantasy metal...
I mean, dragons keep all that treasure why? To look at? What a pain! If you want to keep an eye on your hoard, get some elven smith to make you the best in mithril armor, stud that baby with gold and jewels, and now the adventurers can pry your hoard off your dead body. Gets around those hobbit burglars if they've got to pry the goods off your skullcap.

Also, some dragons are evil, and evil dragons are most likely all about maximizing their advantage against the only thing they've got to worry about: other dragons.

Just my off-the-cuff thoughts.

Vrylakos

 

[Rpjunkie]

Thou shalt read "Bazil Broketail" by Christopher Rowley.

Battledragons! No wings though. Oh well. Great Book!


RPJ

 

[jasper]

read the whole brokentail series.
but think.
Cklink! Look that arrogant greedy dragon has dipped his claws into silver. Charge.

And the claws when snicker snack.

bump bump bump.

Gee Ollie I didn't know he had vorpal claws.

This works great as I have some 1st edition dragons who have special ablitites. Now I can just give them magic items.