Dragon Shaman
- Thread starter Shadeydm
- Start date
Arkhandus
First Post
I recently (last week and this week) started playing in a little Sunday afternoon 3.5 game, where my PC is a chaotic neutral, copper-dragon-totem, halfling dragon shaman. Kinda suboptimal like that, since I didn't choose a strong warrior-type race and ability score assigning (nothing of his but Con and Cha is above 13, and those two are only a little above). My dragon shaman is now 3rd-level, after today's long session. Started at 1st, reached 2nd-level by the end of last week's session (we're facing mostly near-TPK encounters, so high XP but also very close to every PC dying in each fight).
Still need to multiclass soon into Rogue so I can get decent skills, and better fulfill the copper-dragon-admiring, kinda-crazy, trickster theme. Going for just a few levels of rogue over time, focusing primarily on dragon shaman. He's kind of amoral, but not terribly so (more just greedy and self-preserving; compassion is for when he's not in possible danger).
In any case, by some strange chance, he's a bit stronger and tougher than the party's human swordsage (who has average Str and barely-above-average Con), but much weaker than the barbarian. The barbarian is the main damage-dealer, but the swordsage does decent damage sometimes (but, like my PC, he has trouble actually hitting things most of the time, and rolls poor damage as often as I do; he just gets more attacks with his maneuvers on some turns).
I have been fairly useful so far with my dragon shaman as a support character, though. My HP is second-highest in the group (after the barbarian), so I don't die too quickly, and my auras have been the saving grace of our party (Toughness for DR 1/magic on the group, then Vitality for Fast Healing 1 on the group once we get seriously hurt; and sometimes Energy Shield - Acid for when we've faced several foes in melee, speeding up their demise as they pummel us). Haven't chosen my new aura for 3rd-level yet, probably Influence for superior social skills.
My dragon shaman has been one of the weakest party members offensively, but does help out a bit, with his +1 size bonus and +1 Strength bonus (costly in point-buy for a halfling, but I needed him to not suck at melee support for our small party) helping him at actually hitting once in a while; though only for about 4 damage on average with his morningstar; 1-3 points in practice though, sadly. The Acid Shield helps a bit though.
A bard would do better for boosting the party's offense at this level, but would be frail and little use in healing/damage-prevention (which is my dragon shaman's main role, since we're all kinda warrior-types). Of course a bard would also be good with skills for the party, whereas my dragon shaman is nearly useless at such right now. :\
My PC has the least amount of useful skills, since I haven't multiclassed into Rogue yet and have only 13 Int. Also, the dragon shaman list of class skills is fairly sparse, especially when trying to emulate a brass or copper dragon's social nature (and a copper's tricky, prankster-ish nature even moreso). I know I'll be more effective as a party spokesman, info-gatherer, and sneak/scout once I've dipped a few levels into Rogue for skill points and better class skills. Also gonna need some Spot ranks, dangit; I keep getting surprised and rushed during the night watch when it's my guy's shift.
As it is now though, I do have good Bluff and decent Gather Information (+8 and +6 at 3rd-level, IIRC, since I've spent most of my meager 2nd and 3rd-level skill points on Search, and Survival cross-class). If not for my sp-spreading, I'd have awesome Bluff and Gather Information by now.
I don't know how broken a more combat-brutish dragon shaman would be, but I do know now that the average or less-combat-centric dragon shaman is fairly balanced and maybe even a little weak, at least at low levels. My PC is seriously weak on offense for now, but the breath weapon at 4th-level will put him more in league with the party's swordsage and about half as effective as the barbarian (at least for 1 out of every 1d4 rounds or so, heheh). By then he'll at least have enough melee skill to hit about as often as the swordsage, and deal similar damage (I suppose; we just reached 3rd so I haven't seen what the swordsage PC may be able to do now with any new maneuvers he might've just gained).
My PC's focus on getting 14 Con and 16 Cha to start with means he'll be decent with his breath weapon later, and his healing ability later (which I forget the name of), but he's certainly sacrificing some early combat ability (really would like higher Str and Dex). Being a halfling hurts on offense but does help me towards becoming a decent skill and defense character later, by maybe 6th level (since I want to wait until after 4th-level, for the breath weapon, before I dip into Rogue for skill points to become sneaky-sneaky and silver-tongued).
Still need to multiclass soon into Rogue so I can get decent skills, and better fulfill the copper-dragon-admiring, kinda-crazy, trickster theme. Going for just a few levels of rogue over time, focusing primarily on dragon shaman. He's kind of amoral, but not terribly so (more just greedy and self-preserving; compassion is for when he's not in possible danger).
In any case, by some strange chance, he's a bit stronger and tougher than the party's human swordsage (who has average Str and barely-above-average Con), but much weaker than the barbarian. The barbarian is the main damage-dealer, but the swordsage does decent damage sometimes (but, like my PC, he has trouble actually hitting things most of the time, and rolls poor damage as often as I do; he just gets more attacks with his maneuvers on some turns).
I have been fairly useful so far with my dragon shaman as a support character, though. My HP is second-highest in the group (after the barbarian), so I don't die too quickly, and my auras have been the saving grace of our party (Toughness for DR 1/magic on the group, then Vitality for Fast Healing 1 on the group once we get seriously hurt; and sometimes Energy Shield - Acid for when we've faced several foes in melee, speeding up their demise as they pummel us). Haven't chosen my new aura for 3rd-level yet, probably Influence for superior social skills.
My dragon shaman has been one of the weakest party members offensively, but does help out a bit, with his +1 size bonus and +1 Strength bonus (costly in point-buy for a halfling, but I needed him to not suck at melee support for our small party) helping him at actually hitting once in a while; though only for about 4 damage on average with his morningstar; 1-3 points in practice though, sadly. The Acid Shield helps a bit though.
A bard would do better for boosting the party's offense at this level, but would be frail and little use in healing/damage-prevention (which is my dragon shaman's main role, since we're all kinda warrior-types). Of course a bard would also be good with skills for the party, whereas my dragon shaman is nearly useless at such right now. :\
My PC has the least amount of useful skills, since I haven't multiclassed into Rogue yet and have only 13 Int. Also, the dragon shaman list of class skills is fairly sparse, especially when trying to emulate a brass or copper dragon's social nature (and a copper's tricky, prankster-ish nature even moreso). I know I'll be more effective as a party spokesman, info-gatherer, and sneak/scout once I've dipped a few levels into Rogue for skill points and better class skills. Also gonna need some Spot ranks, dangit; I keep getting surprised and rushed during the night watch when it's my guy's shift.
As it is now though, I do have good Bluff and decent Gather Information (+8 and +6 at 3rd-level, IIRC, since I've spent most of my meager 2nd and 3rd-level skill points on Search, and Survival cross-class). If not for my sp-spreading, I'd have awesome Bluff and Gather Information by now.
I don't know how broken a more combat-brutish dragon shaman would be, but I do know now that the average or less-combat-centric dragon shaman is fairly balanced and maybe even a little weak, at least at low levels. My PC is seriously weak on offense for now, but the breath weapon at 4th-level will put him more in league with the party's swordsage and about half as effective as the barbarian (at least for 1 out of every 1d4 rounds or so, heheh). By then he'll at least have enough melee skill to hit about as often as the swordsage, and deal similar damage (I suppose; we just reached 3rd so I haven't seen what the swordsage PC may be able to do now with any new maneuvers he might've just gained).
My PC's focus on getting 14 Con and 16 Cha to start with means he'll be decent with his breath weapon later, and his healing ability later (which I forget the name of), but he's certainly sacrificing some early combat ability (really would like higher Str and Dex). Being a halfling hurts on offense but does help me towards becoming a decent skill and defense character later, by maybe 6th level (since I want to wait until after 4th-level, for the breath weapon, before I dip into Rogue for skill points to become sneaky-sneaky and silver-tongued).
Darklone
Registered User
Thurbane: Ftr/DS works similar to Bbn1/DS but you'll probably need more fighter levels (heading for WS) to make it worthwhile, the bbn dip is much cheaper.
Arkhandus: Why not multiclass to bard instead of rogue? Multiclass restriction? Otherwise I'd go bard since your CHA isn't that bad.
Sadly halfling paragon does not advance spellcasting, otherwise bard would be great...
For damage: Deadly Defense is great.
Arkhandus: Why not multiclass to bard instead of rogue? Multiclass restriction? Otherwise I'd go bard since your CHA isn't that bad.
Sadly halfling paragon does not advance spellcasting, otherwise bard would be great...
For damage: Deadly Defense is great.
Arkhandus
First Post
Deadly Defense? What's that? (I'm not very familiar with most 3.5 material)
I'm planning to mix in a bit of Rogue because it's the favored class of Halflings. I want to focus on Dragon Shaman, which means I'll suffer multiclass penalties if I go Bard without an even mix (which would mean giving up the DS ability improvements, and thus letting the abilities lag behind as overly-weak past level 7 or so).
Halfling Paragon wouldn't really help this character (low hit dice, mediocre other stats, and abilities that only help true-rogue-types, not just-decent-Dex melee types who are skill-point-starved).
At present, since I don't have the SP to be sneaky-sneaky, I'm wearing a breastplate and carrying a heavy shield (got Shield Focus or whatnot from PH2 for another +1 AC), making me the 2nd-toughest PC in the group at AC 20 (22 fighting defensively or 24 total defense); the barbarian has slightly higher HP, and the swordsage has marginally higher AC from high Dex, Wis, and light armor (think he said today that now, with the level-up, he's gained the ability to add Wis to AC like a monk; but I don't know if that's a swordsage ability or the effect of some stance). With Rage's extra Con, the barbarian is slightly tougher than my PC, except for the fact that his low AC results in getting hit by nearly every attack made against him. I rarely get hit.
At 4th-level I may boost Dex to 14 and ditch the breastplate for a masterwork chain shirt, then put 5 ranks in Tumble at 5th when I multiclass into Rogue......just to further boost my survivability as the group's protector and partial-healer. I'll probably have to rely on flanking with Sneak Attack just to deal any damage on the rounds I don't breathe acid at that point....what with fighting defensively penalties, DS mediocre-BAB, and barely decent Str. Maybe instead of Tumble I'll go for Combat Expertise as my 3rd or 6th-level feat (haven't chosen my L3 feat yet)....
I'm planning to mix in a bit of Rogue because it's the favored class of Halflings. I want to focus on Dragon Shaman, which means I'll suffer multiclass penalties if I go Bard without an even mix (which would mean giving up the DS ability improvements, and thus letting the abilities lag behind as overly-weak past level 7 or so).
Halfling Paragon wouldn't really help this character (low hit dice, mediocre other stats, and abilities that only help true-rogue-types, not just-decent-Dex melee types who are skill-point-starved).
At present, since I don't have the SP to be sneaky-sneaky, I'm wearing a breastplate and carrying a heavy shield (got Shield Focus or whatnot from PH2 for another +1 AC), making me the 2nd-toughest PC in the group at AC 20 (22 fighting defensively or 24 total defense); the barbarian has slightly higher HP, and the swordsage has marginally higher AC from high Dex, Wis, and light armor (think he said today that now, with the level-up, he's gained the ability to add Wis to AC like a monk; but I don't know if that's a swordsage ability or the effect of some stance). With Rage's extra Con, the barbarian is slightly tougher than my PC, except for the fact that his low AC results in getting hit by nearly every attack made against him. I rarely get hit.
At 4th-level I may boost Dex to 14 and ditch the breastplate for a masterwork chain shirt, then put 5 ranks in Tumble at 5th when I multiclass into Rogue......just to further boost my survivability as the group's protector and partial-healer. I'll probably have to rely on flanking with Sneak Attack just to deal any damage on the rounds I don't breathe acid at that point....what with fighting defensively penalties, DS mediocre-BAB, and barely decent Str. Maybe instead of Tumble I'll go for Combat Expertise as my 3rd or 6th-level feat (haven't chosen my L3 feat yet)....
Wik
First Post
Thurbane said:
Our Dwarven Fighter (1)/Copper Dragon Shaman (7) is pretty amazing... he has tower shield proficiency and specialization, Shield Ward, Dodge, and Weapon Focus (War Axe). While he only rarely hits in melee combat (and when he does, it's for an average of 10 points), the fact that he has a HUGE AC and has healing and group buffs makes him very useful. Our DS stopped worrying about group buffs fairly early on - he has the HP buff, the DR Buff, and the Resistance Buff - and is now focusing on auras that improve the group's skills (senses and diplomacy, methinks). He's also used one of his auras to get a dragonfire adept's invocations (as per Dragon Magic). So, he's still something of a utilitarian.
In my opinion, a fighter/dragon shaman can work, if you don't want to focus your fighter feats on a direct damage chain,
