Dragon Tactics: To be or Not to Be a Jerk?

[FireLance]

Note that savage mauling does recharge when the dragon is first bloodied.

The cobalt dragon seems to have a number of powers that push, slow or restrain. To take maximum advantage of this, consider having the fight take place on a (fairly) slow-moving glacier which slides all the combatants 2 squares towards the edge of a cliff every round. Being slowed then means that you have to spend a move action every round in order to keep the same distance away from the edge of the cliff. Being restrained means that you're stuck in place while the edge gets closer. Restrained is also a pretty nasty condition to inflict on melee characters because they have to fall back on ranged attacks if their opponents stay out of reach.

 

[holywhitetrash]

Note that savage mauling does recharge when the dragon is first bloodied.

The cobalt dragon seems to have a number of powers that push, slow or restrain. To take maximum advantage of this, consider having the fight take place on a (fairly) slow-moving glacier which slides all the combatants 2 squares towards the edge of a cliff every round. Being slowed then means that you have to spend a move action every round in order to keep the same distance away from the edge of the cliff. Being restrained means that you're stuck in place while the edge gets closer. Restrained is also a pretty nasty condition to inflict on melee characters because they have to fall back on ranged attacks if their opponents stay out of reach.

that sounds like a recipe for a tpk also imagine the person that actually falls off the cliff

 

[fireinthedust]

if you're house-ruling all over the place for the PCs, I think the Solo monsters should have the same benefit.

Frankly, Solos should have multiple actions in a round, more than normal monsters. They should all have minor action attacks, move action attacks, and standard attacks that let them shift.

Take Tiamat as an example. one action per head! Different initiatives per head!

the reason this works is that Solo monsters are alone because they're supposed to basically be multiple monsters. This being the case, it is baffling to me that they don't have the same number of attacks that a regular party of smaller monsters would have. Five attacks and a move, or four attacks and two moves.

Also, I've noticed that the damage output is absurd for the higher level ones. 2d8 on a claw attack for a MM1 red dragon adult (if not higher) is silly. If you're not doing multiple claws a round, any single attack per round monster should have the damage of multiple monsters, or else the PCs aren't going to be afraid.

Not only that, but if you've got one breath weapon (recharge as it may be), I'd like to see a minor at-will varient: shoot them from far away rather than clawing them.

I like the Icefloe mentioned, and the kobold minions. Icy terrain can also knock a PC prone, and a hole in the ice is a great escape route! they have the endurance skill, they should need it!

 

[holywhitetrash]

if you're house-ruling all over the place for the PCs, I think the Solo monsters should have the same benefit.

Frankly, Solos should have multiple actions in a round, more than normal monsters. They should all have minor action attacks, move action attacks, and standard attacks that let them shift.

Take Tiamat as an example. one action per head! Different initiatives per head!

the reason this works is that Solo monsters are alone because they're supposed to basically be multiple monsters. This being the case, it is baffling to me that they don't have the same number of attacks that a regular party of smaller monsters would have. Five attacks and a move, or four attacks and two moves.

Also, I've noticed that the damage output is absurd for the higher level ones. 2d8 on a claw attack for a MM1 red dragon adult (if not higher) is silly. If you're not doing multiple claws a round, any single attack per round monster should have the damage of multiple monsters, or else the PCs aren't going to be afraid.

Not only that, but if you've got one breath weapon (recharge as it may be), I'd like to see a minor at-will varient: shoot them from far away rather than clawing them.

I like the Icefloe mentioned, and the kobold minions. Icy terrain can also knock a PC prone, and a hole in the ice is a great escape route! they have the endurance skill, they should need it!

monsters are designed to loose and give the players a fun fight along the way
also tiamat is not meant to be fought she only has stats in case some idiot pc tries to challenge her in which case she will probably wreck them

 

[bardolph]

As the DM, I'm prepping for the inevitable battle with the dragon in my game. I'm looking over the dragon's stats, I'm looking over my party, and it strikes me the best tactics for the battle (from playing the dragon smart/efficient) make for a boring fight.

The dragon: Young Cobalt Dragon (5th level)

The Party: 2nd Level (but beefed up with House Rules)
Dragonborn Paladin (Chaladin)
Human Barbarian, Thunderborn
Deva hybrid Cleric|Invoker
Dwarf Protection Shaman
Revenant Tempest Fighter
Revenant Assassin

While some PCs are not optimized to fight a monster by itself, they have the capacity to decimate anything I've thrown at them thusfar. Especially with the Assassin, I know these guys can really obliterate a single target.

So back to my dilemma. Looking at the dragon's stats, the best method of attack is: Frightening Presence, Actoinpoint: Breath Weapon, and then second round, Savage Mauling. Or alternatively, Breath Weapon Action Point: Savage Mauling.

However, that's Boring. The dragon just used TWO Encounter powers (and a recharge power) in the first round - and those are the only encounter powers it has. It would make the rest of the fight rather dull, since it has nothing else to pull out of its sleeve, nothing tactically useful. Besides, it's a +7 vs Will; it likely will miss a few.

Not to mention it's an ass thing to do: in the first round say "No one gets a turn", and hitting everyone with a breath weapon, and then getting a new turn to hit everyone again. I generally hate Stun. Denying players any chance to act in a round is just mean. However, looking at my party, I think I need that edge.

Finally, for a 5th level solo the thing is not going to be hurting my party a whole lot - it doesn't do a lot of damage.

How do I make this fight awesome AND dangerous?

Hmm... sounds like an "awesome and dangerous" encounter just as you described it. The killer opening punch is strong enough to create a palpable sense of danger to the party at the start of the combat, and the rechargeable breath weapon gives an unpredictable threat that lasts throughout the encounter. Also remember the extra boost the dragon gets when bloodied.

One additional strategy is to have the dragon flee when it gets down to 25% hit points, and have it ambush the party again after it heals.

 

[FireLance]

that sounds like a recipe for a tpk also imagine the person that actually falls off the cliff

So start the fight about 50 feet (10 squares) away from the edge of the cliff. The idea is to create an "Oh no!" reaction every time someone gets pushed, slowed or restrained or fails a saving throw against slow or restrained, and not necessarily to kill the PCs.

If the PC does fall off the cliff, you could space ledges, rocky outcroppings, etc. at 20-foot intervals so that a PC who does fall off takes 2d10 damage and gets to make another saving throw to stop falling further each time he takes damage. The fall could still kill the PC if he fails enough saving throws, but this gives him a better chance to survive, assuming he was unlucky (or dumb) enough to get moved off the cliff in the first place.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I get the feeling this party is pretty combat optimized, so personally if I wanted to give them a really serious challenge, one that will push them close to death and might even take them out if they aren't on their best game, then I'd make it a Level+5 encounter.

With 6 PCs that means an XP budget of 1,800 XP. That would give you 800 more XP to play with, which is a pretty good amount of XP! I suppose this COULD be overkill on a level 2 party, but in any case even a Level +3 encounter for 6 PCs gives you 200 more XP to work with (not a lot, but you could drop in a couple of level 2 one-shot traps and a low level Lurker or Artillery monster to harass the party with).

I like the glacier idea but maybe make it a frozen waterfall. The PCs have to climb up it and then they're on a frozen pond that fills the main lair area behind that. Push effects could work 2x better than normal on the ice and the falls could be say 10' high but tricky to climb back up, so the dragon would try to shove characters over the edge to get them out of action for a round or two. Maybe a Lurker could be at the bottom hiding and ready to keep such a character occupied for an extra round or two.

Traps could be something like weak spots in the ice that a PC can punch through if they stand in the wrong spot and don't notice them.

I'd imagine this fight going like the PCs come to the waterfall and start climbing up. As the first ones get to the top the dragon attacks. If only one PC is up he'd probably melee that character, if several make it up before his initiative he might move right to the edge and cut loose with Frightful Presence to slow them all down and keep the lead characters isolated. He can then try to deal with them more or less piecemeal. If the PCs are clever they'll try to establish a beachhead up top and get the rest of the party into the fight ASAP. At that point the dragon can cut loose and then back up, hoping to get a party member or two to fall through the ice.