Dragonborn/Draconic Feats, and a PRC

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Of course I know of those Prestige Classes, they just seem a little too... bland. The one that I made is a little bit of both which is what I was looking for but in one "tree" if you will. As for your suggestions earlier...

Yeah. If you use Dragonheart Mage, I'd suggest going the Dragon Disciple route and having class levels stack with Sorcerer level for Draconic bloodline ability. That way, you're effectively trading caster levels for a greatly improved breath weapon.

D. Armor: Fair, I thought it needed a little more, but when combined with Draconic Vigor... Core Feat.

You know, Dragonfire Adepts get X/magic DR as a class feature. I don't see anything wrong with Draconic Armor giving a static bonus instead of relying on spellcasting.

D. Knowledge: Copy that, I hadn't looked at the Bardic Knowledge for PF so that was my mistake. Core feat.

There is one big difference. Bards can make Knowledge checks untrained. But making Draconic Knowledge more powerful than Skill Focus for every Knowledge all at once didn't seem quite right.

D. Prescence: I like your suggestion, but I will amend it to five feats and you effect full.

That seems reasonable enough to me.

D Resistance: I saw this one as a nifty feat IMO. What my aim for the enhancement thing was, if he negates all the damage, he then absorbs the energy into himself, giving him the temporary immunity. Kind of like a short antivirus to immunize himself. Feedback on that thought?

I don't see a balance problem with it, but it strikes me as complication for little benefit. For the most part, if the energy resistance completely negates the first attack, increasing it further isn't going to make a difference for the second.

D. Skin: Wow! Good call! The reason that It was suggested to me to dumb it down so much from my original idea, was the fact that Dodge is essentially the same as this feat, but this one is better. So why would someone ever take Dodge when this is available.

Dodge improves Touch AC, but its main purpose is as a feat tax for better feats.

I think I will however return the scaling to it but at a +1 per 3 feats with the requirement of Draconic Toughness as a prerequisite. To mediate the penalties gained with Bestial Hide. I will however allow it to stack.

I wouldn't, but I don't think it's that big a deal.

Additional Aspect: Yeah this was just a shot in the dark. I kind of knew that this would be the outcome, but I had to try! Removed.

It's a fine idea in theory and worth exploring, but it's just too powerful for a feat.

Heart of the Dragon Engorged: It doesn't grant bonus damage DICE, it grants a bonus +1 point of damage for every 5HD you have. At level 20 you simply gain a +4 to damage.

Ah. Reading back, I see what you meant. I still think pushing the die size is good enough for a single feat, and adding +4 to 7d10 is pretty much inconsequential. I don't see a balance issue here, but I'd drop the bonus damage just to simplify what the feat does.

Mind of the Dragon Realized: You are right, but I'm going to need to spend some time working on this one. Pending Amendments.

Wings of the Dragon Unfurled: Good call, how about, "speed increased based on maneuverability. +5 clumsy, +10.... etc"?

Only Dragonborn can take the feat, and Dragonborn have average maneuverability, so giving it different bonuses for different maneuverability doesn't make a lot of sense. I'd say put it at 10' and call it good; that's twice as good as Fleet.

RUNIC HIDE: You are right now that I look at it. I really need some advice on this one. I think that +1 NA and a immunity or two is valid. Even if it's not something a True gets, I'm not a True, I am a dragonborn, with a base race so something a little different. But all of the immunities, your right, a little too much.

Well, that's a thing that's based off of a homebrew dragon. So it might make perfect sense if your world has that kind of dragon in it.

Second Draconic Heritage: Yeah I liked the idea of this feat, but never intended to take it. It will need some rewording/reworking/aborting.

It's a viable enough concept and it wouldn't take much work. It's a Draconic feat that gives you the benefits of Draconic Heritage, only for a different kind of dragon. The only thing that was wrong with it was the extra benefit for overlapping dragons, and clarification of what happens to feats like Draconic Breath and Draconic Resistance if you have more than one Draconic Heritage.

Let's do that right now:

Races of the Dragon

• Draconic Arcane Grace: No change.
• Draconic Breath: Either choose an energy type when you take the feat, or choose each time you use it. I could see it either way.
• Draconic Claw: No change.
• Draconic Flight: No change.
• Draconic Heritage: Just a note that bonuses don't stack.
• Draconic Legacy: Choose one dragon type when you take the feat.
• Draconic Persuasion: No change.
• Draconic Power: Doesn't stack with itself.
• Draconic Presence:: No change.
• Draconic Resistance: Choose an energy type when you take the feat.
• Draconic Skin: No change.
• Draconic Toughness: No change.

Dragon Magic

• X Dragon Lineage: No change.
• Draconic Armor: No change.
• Draconic Knowledge: No change.
• Draconic Senses: No change.
• Draconic Vigor: No change.
• Dragonfire Assault: Choose an energy type when you take the feat.
• Dragonfire Channeling: Choose an energy type when you take the feat.
• Dragonfire Inspiration: Choose an energy type when you take the feat. Only one energy type applies at a time.
• Dragonfire Strike: Choose an energy type when you take the feat.

Fixed. Draconic Breath can afford to be a little looser than the others, because it uses spell slots and doesn't automatically improve by level.

 

[DevistonX]

Jeez your beast lol, a balancing expert!

 

[DevistonX]

Wings of the Dragon Unfurled: Changed to bonus 10' to fly speed.
My reasoning for the way I had it is that I wanted it to have some form of increasing returns. But, nothing wrong with a flat 10 I guess.

Runic Hide: Ok, totally agree that there is too much here. And yes, the Runescale Dragon in our world is a True dragon kinda and a goodly aligned one too Haven't come up with an aspect for the evil dragon we have, the Mageblood Dragon, but I'm sure some casting improving aspect couldn't be hard. We just didn't like the Gold/Red being the end all be all of each alignment. So we came up with one higher. They are more than True dragons but less than the gods Bahamut (By His claw and tooth!) and Tiamat (May Her heads grow overly hungry). And the Runescale has all those immunities, however I think it's a bit much for the aspect.

What about the +1 NA, Fatigue Immune, and Nausea Immune?

 

[DevistonX]

So I've been thinking about the balance of this prestige class. I'm not sure if it is to be honest. I'm totaling up benefits and here is what I came up with:

-Additional 5 dice to my dragonborn breath weapon (With Heart Engorged this could be up to 10d10 every 1d4 rounds, at level 15!)

-3 Draconic Feats

-Increased Sorcerer Bloodline levels (The Blood of Dragons feature from Dragon Disciple confuses me, it says that levels stack for bloodline POWERS, but then talks about spells known. Does that mean it's not just POWERS, but also bloodline feats and spells and such? If so, I think I will limit the Blood of Dragons to JUST be powers)

-Up to two Dragonpacts, and adding Dragonpact spells to my known list

-Gaining spell like abilities at the cost of spells known. Totaling up to five 2nd levels per days, five 5th levels per day, and five 7th levels per day. These spells would be removed from my spells known however

-One (up to) 4th, 5th, and 6th level spell known from ANY class list

-Adding spells to my breath weapon range

-Seven additional caster levels

Now, These abilities are small pickings from a few prestige classes. I think however, that this may be WAY too much. It doesn't seem it at first glance, but as I keep delving into the details it raises some questions.

I noticed this being an issue when I used Dragonspell to snag Form of the Dragon. This spell is granted to the Dragon Disciple at only one, growing to two uses per day. I could have it up to five! Mind you I couldn't cast it regularly anymore, but still!

I bounced this class off of the Dragon Disciple and I'm not sure the balance factor. D.D. Gives you survivability and melee combat capability. Mine gives none of that, not to mention doesn't give flat stat boosts or the mobility of Wings. HD is low, as well as BAB. Mitigating factors. I'm still not quite sure its sitting where it needs to be.

As an after thought, should I disallow the Breath Weapon class feature to give benefits to the Draconic Breath feat? Because if I am a Heart Aspect Dragonborn with the feat, technically I would get the class feature to both abilities. Mind you I don't see the point in that, but the question, IMO, still needs to be raised.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

What about the +1 NA, Fatigue Immune, and Nausea Immune?

Give him some DR. Say, X/- and 2X/magic, make X = 1/4 HD or 1/5 HD+1. Fatigue and Nausea aren't that common, but when they come into play they're really useful.

-Additional 5 dice to my dragonborn breath weapon (With Heart Engorged this could be up to 10d10 every 1d4 rounds, at level 15!)

A Dragonfire Adept at that level is doing 7d6 every round. Yours sounds fine to me.

-3 Draconic Feats

Sure.

-Increased Sorcerer Bloodline levels (The Blood of Dragons feature from Dragon Disciple confuses me, it says that levels stack for bloodline POWERS, but then talks about spells known. Does that mean it's not just POWERS, but also bloodline feats and spells and such? If so, I think I will limit the Blood of Dragons to JUST be powers)

Just the powers. Feats and spells come from actual Sorcerer levels.

-Up to two Dragonpacts, and adding Dragonpact spells to my known list

I haven't done a lot with dragonpacts, but that sounds alright.

-Gaining spell like abilities at the cost of spells known. Totaling up to five 2nd levels per days, five 5th levels per day, and five 7th levels per day. These spells would be removed from my spells known however

I am concerned with this. I'd limit it to 5/3/1.

-One (up to) 4th, 5th, and 6th level spell known from ANY class list

Go with 3/5/7. That way, if they're entering at 6th, the bonus spell will always be one lower than their highest level.

-Adding spells to my breath weapon range

I don't know what that means.

-Seven additional caster levels

Sounds about right. Losing three caster levels means losing 9s.

As an after thought, should I disallow the Breath Weapon class feature to give benefits to the Draconic Breath feat?

Yes. Draconic Breath already advances by level because it's powered by spell slots. Look at the way Dragonheart Mage handled it, and then remember you're already giving a lot better stuff.

 

[DevistonX]

In general, I like the changes you put up.

Runic Hide: Wow, I really like that. +1 NA, DR X/- and DR Y/magic. X is equal to 1/5 HD+1, Y is equal to 2X.

-Adding spell to breath weapon range

Breath Channeling (Su):*At 5th level, a draconic archanamach may channel the effect of any arcane spell that affects an area through her breath weapon. As a full-round action, a draconic archanamach may attack with her breath weapon and cast the spell at the same time; the area of the breath weapon effectively becomes the spell’s area as well. A draconic archanamach that has a breath weapon through the dragonfire adept class may choose the breath weapon’s area to be a line or a cone, as usual. This ability only effects spells that already have a range on them. i.e. this ability does not effect disguise self to deal damage and disguise the enemies.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Ah, right, that. Yeah, I think Breath Channeling is fine.

 

[DevistonX]

Ok, changed Runic Hide.

Runic Hide (Ex):
At 1st level you gain +1 natural armor bonus to your AC, you also gain DR X/- and DR Y/magic. X is equal to 1/5 HD+1, Y is equal to 2X, this is supernatural.
At 6th level you gain Light Fortification
At 9th level, X is equal to 1/5 HD+2.
At 12th level you gain Moderate Fortification.
At 15th level, X is equal to 1/5 HD+3.

And Dragonspells tool tip has been reworded. Simply, you select a level 2 and you get 4 uses per day, scaling up by +1 next two times you gain the feature. You have the option to gain UP TO a level five next time, but since that is 3 levels above 2, you lose three perday uses. Select a level 3 spell and you'd lose 1 perday use. Select a level 7 on the last time you gain the feature, and you lose 5 perday uses etc.

Changed Draconic Epiphany to always be one level lower than your highest.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Yeah, I think you're fine. I wouldn't change the DR formula once it was set, since it's already improving. What about bumping the natural armor bonus up to +3 and +5?

The new Dragonspell looks fine to me.

 

[DevistonX]

wise wise and wise again. Ok then, I actually wanted to do that, but thought it might have been too much. NA it is.

+2 at level 9 totaling to +3
+2 at level 15 totaling to +5