Dragonhide armor
- Thread starter dama
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Fieari
Explorer
Basically, every time this subject comes up, I have to say:
Yes, the core rules for dragonhide armor suck. I DM in order that my players have fun. Fun generally involves doing cool things. Dragonhide armor is cool, but players tend to sacrifice things that "look" cool on their imaginary character for something functional. As a DM, I feel it is my duty to be able to combine mechanically functional equipment with stuff that is "cool". Thus, I feel it is not only my right, but my DUTY to house rule dragonskin armor as something better. Providing energy resistance is the easiest way to go, of course, but sometimes I'll also allow for AC bonuses and such.
Otherwise, the game just isn't as much fun.
So yes, off to house rules, because in this situation, the RAW sucks.
Yes, the core rules for dragonhide armor suck. I DM in order that my players have fun. Fun generally involves doing cool things. Dragonhide armor is cool, but players tend to sacrifice things that "look" cool on their imaginary character for something functional. As a DM, I feel it is my duty to be able to combine mechanically functional equipment with stuff that is "cool". Thus, I feel it is not only my right, but my DUTY to house rule dragonskin armor as something better. Providing energy resistance is the easiest way to go, of course, but sometimes I'll also allow for AC bonuses and such.
Otherwise, the game just isn't as much fun.
So yes, off to house rules, because in this situation, the RAW sucks.
Elephant
First Post
Extra AC and energy resistance would be the way to go, IMO. Making it more expensive would balance that out - in addition to slaying the dragon(s) for dragonhide armor, the PCs will have to pony up significant cash for that benefit. I'd probably rule that crafting effective dragonhide of this type would require an extra-high craft DC, as well.
Klaus
First Post
One house rule I apply is that dragonhide is inherently magical, reducing the cost for enchanting it (gp and XP) by 10% for the following enchantments:
- AC bonus
- Fortification (light, moderate, heavy)
- Invulnerability
Also, based on the dragon type, it reduces the cost of one of the following enchantments by 30%
- Black, Green, Copper: Acid Resistance
- Blue, Bronze: Electricity Resistance
- Copper, Gold, Red: Fire Resistance
- Silver, White: Cold Resistance
- Shadow: Shadow (duh!)
- Ghost Dragon (any type): Ghost Touch (harvesting the scales of a ghost dragon requires quite a crafty party!)
- AC bonus
- Fortification (light, moderate, heavy)
- Invulnerability
Also, based on the dragon type, it reduces the cost of one of the following enchantments by 30%
- Black, Green, Copper: Acid Resistance
- Blue, Bronze: Electricity Resistance
- Copper, Gold, Red: Fire Resistance
- Silver, White: Cold Resistance
- Shadow: Shadow (duh!)
- Ghost Dragon (any type): Ghost Touch (harvesting the scales of a ghost dragon requires quite a crafty party!)
Fieari
Explorer
Quick question for those of you NOT house ruling dragonhide:
What are draconic encounters like in your campaign?
Are dragons just another monster, the sort of thing you might roll up on a random chart?
I know that MY players have learned to fear the sight of even white wyrmlings... (maybe even esspecially white wyrmlings-- evil little buggers, and not at all willing to duke it out in an honerable fashion so that the party can kill them) and they're at level 8 now. They've encountered half a dozen dragons so far... nearly died every single time, and the only dragon they killed, they killed via McGuffin, and not through any tactical merit on their part. When they finally DO kill a dragon, there will be cheers all around and celebration and quite a bit of partying.
What are draconic encounters like in your campaign?
Are dragons just another monster, the sort of thing you might roll up on a random chart?
I know that MY players have learned to fear the sight of even white wyrmlings... (maybe even esspecially white wyrmlings-- evil little buggers, and not at all willing to duke it out in an honerable fashion so that the party can kill them) and they're at level 8 now. They've encountered half a dozen dragons so far... nearly died every single time, and the only dragon they killed, they killed via McGuffin, and not through any tactical merit on their part. When they finally DO kill a dragon, there will be cheers all around and celebration and quite a bit of partying.
Sejs
First Post
For my players? Painful. And never to be taken lightly. My players fully understand my position - when I run NPCs, monsters, etc, I do so in a fashion that is as faithful to the individual as I can make it, and to the best of that individual's ability.
And with dragons, that ability is vast.
When I DM, I don't use random charts -exactly-. I map out ahead of time what creatures are in the area, cook up a number of encounters that would be appropriate that incorporate the locals. When the time comes for a random encounter, I either pick one if it's particularly pertinant, or just roll randomly if none of them present themselves as really cool and appropriate for the situation at hand.
Memory serving, I've used a random encounter with a dragon a grant total of once. White dragon, set on a coastal arctic plain. Fly by, snatch a PC in heavy armor, fly out over open water while maintaining a hold on them, and let 'em drop. They later recovered the (then half-eaten) corpse from the dragon's lair once they tracked it down. Afterwards when I was going over my game notes, I came to the conclusion that yeah.. that was all perfectly in line with what a white dragon would've done, but all the same, it wasn't much fun for the bulk of the encounter set. So, after that I've just made a point to keep dragons as more of plot points than just random monsters.
Klaus
First Post
My players fought exactly 3 dragons in the past 11 levels:
- Calcryx, the white wyrmling;
- Nightscale, the young black;
- A young adult blue dragon.
They also fought a half-white dragon/half frost giant.
They tend to be very well prepared (ranks in Knowledge (arcana) and the ranger has +4 against dragons from favored enemy).
- Calcryx, the white wyrmling;
- Nightscale, the young black;
- A young adult blue dragon.
They also fought a half-white dragon/half frost giant.
They tend to be very well prepared (ranks in Knowledge (arcana) and the ranger has +4 against dragons from favored enemy).
We're talking about two separate things here. When you're talking heavy armor, it would incorporate scales. That's the hard stuff. Lighter armor could certainly be made from smaller dragons like wyrmlings or a shaved layer from a larger dragon (or other creature!).
The amor bonus would be negligible though. If you're talking light armor, its thin and light. That's the point. Kangaroo leather is really tough leather. Alligator skin is supple and tough, but I don't think either is strong enough to count as an armor bonus. Dragonskin might be supple enough to get that masterwork quality armor check bonus. That sounds reasonable.
Resistance to elements would be the point. The hide of a black dragon might allow you to stomp around in pools of acid all day. Depends on the concentration of the acid I guess. I agree that it would need to be enchanted to express a powerful resisance, but I would be open to argument on low level resistance.
As a Special Material it would be conductive or resistant as the case may be, like a gem, rather than hard like a metal. Would a Displacer Beast hide naturally grant concealment? I would say no. But I would be open to changes in item creation formulae when using it as a special material.
By the way, I did make a scourge once. Black adamanite chain braided in dragon wyrmling hide. It was heavily enchanted. Rules are guidelines. Always reward creativity. That's why were here, yes?
The amor bonus would be negligible though. If you're talking light armor, its thin and light. That's the point. Kangaroo leather is really tough leather. Alligator skin is supple and tough, but I don't think either is strong enough to count as an armor bonus. Dragonskin might be supple enough to get that masterwork quality armor check bonus. That sounds reasonable.
Resistance to elements would be the point. The hide of a black dragon might allow you to stomp around in pools of acid all day. Depends on the concentration of the acid I guess. I agree that it would need to be enchanted to express a powerful resisance, but I would be open to argument on low level resistance.
As a Special Material it would be conductive or resistant as the case may be, like a gem, rather than hard like a metal. Would a Displacer Beast hide naturally grant concealment? I would say no. But I would be open to changes in item creation formulae when using it as a special material.
By the way, I did make a scourge once. Black adamanite chain braided in dragon wyrmling hide. It was heavily enchanted. Rules are guidelines. Always reward creativity. That's why were here, yes?
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Nifft
Penguin Herder
Empirate
First Post
Back on topic, I found this little passage in the Draconomicon:
The book goes on to describe Dragoncraft Items, however, which are quite OK - needs a special feat to craft, but provides nonmagical energy resistance 5 (corresponding to dragon type) in the case of armor. It costs 3,000 gp for light armor, 6,000 gp for medium, and 11,000 gp for heavy armor, plus the armor's regular cost. The whole package also always produces masterwork results.
Draconomicon said:
The book goes on to describe Dragoncraft Items, however, which are quite OK - needs a special feat to craft, but provides nonmagical energy resistance 5 (corresponding to dragon type) in the case of armor. It costs 3,000 gp for light armor, 6,000 gp for medium, and 11,000 gp for heavy armor, plus the armor's regular cost. The whole package also always produces masterwork results.
