D&D 5E Dragonlance book (180 pages) for players & DMs coming December 6!

[Velderan]

According to Splinterverse (in this post) the authors are commission art to repalce the illegal art so they can release it on DM's guild. I kinda think that proves my point.

Of note, if they do release it on DMsGuild, they will need to remove it from whatever site they have it posted for free (per DM's Guild requirements).

PS The Elmore art "Dragon Slayers" is in the book, fairly early. I am not sure who has the copyright on it, but normally it would be TSR/WotC. That is also not the only, non original, art.

I just looked again and there is other suspect art, but it is honestly not as much as I thought. I imagine they can get this cleaned up for the guild without much effort.

They already did remove it from where it was posted before. They didn't mention anything about any art being used incorrectly, but as has been said before, said they were commissioning new art and expanding some of the book for release on DM's Guild. They won't be making it available for free on their site again I'm sure.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Definitely not all of the draconian art and there is classic elmore art in there (not even from dragonlance) among others

That is a common misconception. Just because it is free, does not allow you to use another's IP and trade dress. That being said - a lot of people do it (including myself). However, it is still illegal.

If you do it, why are you calling it out in a judgemental way? In any case, by that definition, no one can homebrew with someone's IP without permission, which makes an awful lot of gaming illegal.

 

[dave2008]

If you do it, why are you calling it out in a judgemental way? In any case, by that definition, no one can homebrew with someone's IP without permission, which makes an awful lot of gaming illegal.

Probably because I woke up grumpy from a nap! This really doesn't bother me that much.

However, I do expect more from apparent professionals. I was told some of the authors worked on the the original modules - they should know better.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Yes it is. It being free doesn't change the fact that they are illegally using another's IP and trade dress. However, a lot of people do it as I noted in my post above this one. I get more riled up by the art theft personally - but it is still illegal.

PS There was a big discussion on this issue, on this forum, a few years ago. The local lawyers confirmed it is illegal even if you offer it for free. I was on your side then, but I was wrong.

I will say if you or I take a piece of Elmore art and put it in my Roll20 game that is most likely fair use... if on the other hand I put it in my landing page for my campaign setting homepage and try to use it to get traffic is where we get to legal issues. (unless it is there to be critique that is also fair use at least it CAN be)

 

[mamba]

According to Splinterverse (in this post) the authors are commission art to repalce the illegal art so they can release it on DM's guild. I kinda think that proves my point.

That says nothing about replacing illegal art, only about adding more commissioned art. I guess we will see on the 6th.

 

[dave2008]

Presenting the cover to our upcoming Dragonlance book with art by Rod Mendez inspired by Larry Elmore!

View attachment 268157

The authors of the platinum-bestselling Feywild Companion and Fizban’s Vault of Draconic Secrets, bring you a 180-page book over six months in the making. The world of Krynn is yours with the Dragonlance Companion. Players and DMs will find everything they need to create compelling characters and undertake exciting adventures across Ansalon and beyond.

Dragonlance Companion releases Dec. 6 on the DM's Guild! Follow us everywhere @Splinterverse for daily spoilers until release.

@Splinterverse , I really likes this cover art. I have two questions for you:

1. Who is the artist (and do they have any more work in the book)
2. Was there any thought about going back to the original idea of having the DL dragons being slightly different from the standard D&D dragons?

I guess that was 3 questions

 

[GMforPowergamers]

back to the original idea of having the DL dragons being slightly different from the standard D&D dragons?

this is some out of game lore I don't know... was there going to be differences in the 1e setting?

 

[dave2008]

this is some out of game lore I don't know... was there going to be differences in the 1e setting?

The chromatic dragons in the original trilogy where specifically designed to be different from the normal 1e chromatics. IIRC, which ever artist first designed a dragon set the standard for that dragon. It is easiest to see in the classic Takhisis art by Caldwell and the 1e MM:

1e Takhisis

1e Tiamat:

Black Dragon: two nose horns instead of forward pointing bull horns
Blue: no nose horn
Red: most similiar, but added more horns/spikes
Green: no dorsal frill and added horns
White: a crown of horns vs single horn/frill

These were intentionally different than the MM versions.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The chromatic dragons in the original trilogy where specifically designed to be different from the normal 1e chromatics. IIRC, which ever artist first designed a dragon set the standard for that dragon. It is easiest to see in the classic Takhisis art by Caldwell:

1e Takhisis
View attachment 268621
1e Tiamat:
View attachment 268625

Black Dragon: two nose horns instead of forward pointing bull horns
Blue: no nose horn
Red: most similiar, but added more horns/spikes
Green: no dorsal frill and added horns
White: a crown of horns vs single horn/frill

okay just visual... I was hopeing maybe there would be something like the elements or personality or something... still cool and i love that art. Thank you

 

[dave2008]

okay just visual... I was hopeing maybe there would be something like the elements or personality or something... still cool and i love that art. Thank you

Well they differently had more personality because they were actually given personalities!

I will never forgot the mother red in Dragons of Autumn Twilight.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Well they differently had more personality because they were actually given personalities!

that is a fair point... when I joined D&D I made every dragon I made a character (with goals, fears, and such) and the only player that ever played D&D before thought it amazing... but I JUST thought that normal... then again I have different 2e experience then most it seems

 

[Micah Sweet]

Probably because I woke up grumpy from a nap! This really doesn't bother me that much.

However, I do expect more from apparent professionals. I was told some of the authors worked on the the original modules - they should know better.

Know better than what? Showing their design work to others?

 

[Dire Bare]

I had to look it up, and was sad to see you are promoting an illegal book with stolen art.

"Tasselhoff's Pouches of Everything" is published by the Dragonlance Nexus, which is the official fan community for the Dragonlance setting. They have a special license with WotC. The book, and their other products, are not illegal nor are using stolen art. They are revising the book, both the content and the art, for a release on the DM's Guild.

The book was offered free of charge when it was released. That's not illegal.

Really? Just because you offer something for free, doesn't make it legal or illegal. Whether you charge or not, you can't use art and trade dress without a license. People do it all the time, and WotC doesn't put forth the energy to hunt them all down, but . . . doesn't make it legal or right.

 

[Dire Bare]

The chromatic dragons in the original trilogy where specifically designed to be different from the normal 1e chromatics. IIRC, which ever artist first designed a dragon set the standard for that dragon. It is easiest to see in the classic Takhisis art by Caldwell and the 1e MM:

1e Takhisis
View attachment 268621
1e Tiamat:
View attachment 268625

Black Dragon: two nose horns instead of forward pointing bull horns
Blue: no nose horn
Red: most similiar, but added more horns/spikes
Green: no dorsal frill and added horns
White: a crown of horns vs single horn/frill

These were intentionally different than the MM versions.

Pretty sure that's artistic license, and not intentional design choices.

 

[Micah Sweet]

"Tasselhoff's Pouches of Everything" is published by the Dragonlance Nexus, which is the official fan community for the Dragonlance setting. They have a special license with WotC. The book, and their other products, are not illegal nor are using stolen art. They are revising the book, both the content and the art, for a release on the DM's Guild.


Really? Just because you offer something for free, doesn't make it legal or illegal. Whether you charge or not, you can't use art and trade dress without a license. People do it all the time, and WotC doesn't put forth the energy to hunt them all down, but . . . doesn't make it legal or right.

How many people are you allowed to show your work to before it suddenly becomes illegal?

 

[dave2008]

How many people are you allowed to show your work to before it suddenly becomes illegal?

Showing your work is fine, but IP and trade dress are someone else's work. That is where you get in trouble. However, in this instance, it seems I may have been wrong as apparently they had a license from WotC.

 

[dave2008]

Pretty sure that's artistic license, and not intentional design choices.

I am pretty sure it was intentional. I remember reading about it (maybe in the art of dragonlance) back in the day. All the artist (with the exception Easley IMO) adhered to it for the dragonlance products and only the dragonlance products. Look at the blue dragon from Keith below and compare it to the blue head from Takhisis by Caldwell I posted previously. Same design (pair of horns, pair of fangs, no nose horn, & strange belly scales), which is different from the MM.

And here is a DL blue by Elmore (though he adds a little horn to the nose)

The dragons in DL were unique and adhered to a particular design that was unique to DL.

Here is a red by Easley and it follows the same design as Caldwell's Takhisis (double row of spines, 2 prominent horns, & check spikes)

Red by Elmore:

And let us not forget the "crown of horns" white dragons unique to DL. Here is Elmore's version of the white Takhisis head by Caldwell.

So whether or not they intentionally deviated from the MM, they clearly had a particular design/art direction for DL products that did not carry on to other works by the same artist. These were dragonlance dragons.

Again, I remember this specifically being a thing: which ever artist painted a dragon first for DL, set the standard for that dragon. I don't really trust my memory much any more, but that was my memory!

 

[dave2008]

Know better than what?

Than to steal others work (art, IP, trade dress).

Showing their design work to others?

That is showing someone else's work, not your own. Now, it appears I could be wrong as @Dire Bare claims they have a license to do this. I will go back an edit my first post on this subject.

 

[dave2008]

@Splinterverse , sorry for derailing your thread and awesome product announcement. I have said my piece on that subject (TPoE) and will just look forward to more updates from you and Dec. 6th!

 

[dave2008]

@Splinterverse, any chance you will provide alternate stats for Kyrnn dragons? I realize traditionally they used the same stats. But this is Dragonlance, and the WotC designs are a bit lacking.

PS. I would be happy to help with this as I redesign the chromatics every few years. Here are my current versions (they are bit complex IMO), but I am starting work on new designs right now:

Spoiler: Chromatic Dragons

• True Dragons: Chromatic Dragons
  • Black Dragon, Great Wyrm (Elite, CR 27)
  • Black Dragon, Wyrm (Legendary CR 27)
  • Black Dragon, Ancient (Legendary, CR 23)
  • Black Dragon, Elder (Legendary, CR 19)
  • Black Dragon, Adult (Legendary, CR 15)
  • Black Dragon, Young Adult (standard, CR 11)
  • Black Dragon, Juvenile (standard, CR 7)
  • Black Dragon, Young (standard, CR 3)
  • Black Dragon, Wyrmling (standard, CR 1/2)
  • Blue Dragon, Great Wyrm (Elite, CR 29)
  • Blue Dragon, Wyrm (Legendary, CR 29)
  • Blue Dragon, Ancient (Legendary, CR 25)
  • Blue Dragon, Elder (Legendary, CR 21)
  • Blue Dragon, Adult (Legendary, CR 17)
  • Blue Dragon, Young Adult (standard, CR 13)
  • Blue Dragon, Juvenile (standard, CR 9)
  • Blue Dragon, Young (standard, CR 5)
  • Blue Dragon, Wyrmling (standard, CR 1)
  • Green Dragon, Great Wyrm (Elite, CR 28)
  • Green Dragon, Wyrm (Legendary, CR 28)
  • Green Dragon, Ancient (Legendary, CR 24)
  • Green Dragon, Elder (Legendary, CR 20)
  • Green Dragon, Adult (Legendary, CR 16)
  • Green Dragon, Young Adult (standard, CR 12)
  • Green Dragon, Juvenile (standard, CR 8)
  • Green Dragon, Young (standard, CR 4)
  • Green Dragon, Wyrmling (standard, CR 1/2)
  • Red Dragon, Great Wyrm (Elite, CR 30)
  • Red Dragon, Wyrm (Legendary, CR 30)
  • Red Dragon, Ancient (Legendary, CR 26)
  • Red Dragon, Elder (Legendary, CR 22)
  • Red Dragon, Adult (Legendary, CR 18)
  • Red Dragon, Young Adult (Legendary, CR 14)
  • Red Dragon, Juvenile (standard, CR 10)
  • Red Dragon, Young (standard, CR 6)
  • Red Dragon, Wyrmling (standard, CR 2)
  • White Dragon, Great Wyrm (Elite, CR 26)
  • White Dragon, Wyrm (Legendary CR 26)
  • White Dragon, Ancient (Legendary, CR 22)
  • White Dragon, Elder (Legendary, CR 18)
  • White Dragon, Adult (Legendary, CR 14)
  • White Dragon, Young Adult (standard, CR 10)
  • White Dragon, Juvenile (standard, CR 6)
  • White Dragon, Young (standard, CR 2)
  • White Dragon, Wyrmling (standard, CR 1/4)

a "Dragons of Krynn" book would be a DMsGuild title I would purchase!