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WotC Dragonlance: Everything You Need For Shadow of the Dragon Queen

WotC has shared a video explaining the Dragonlance setting, and what to expect when it is released in December. World at War: Introduces war as a genre of play to fifth edition Dungeons & Dragons. Dragonlance: Introduces the Dragonlance setting with a focus on the War of the Lance and an overview of what players and DMs need to run adventures during this world spanning conflict. Heroes of...

WotC has shared a video explaining the Dragonlance setting, and what to expect when it is released in December.

World at War: Introduces war as a genre of play to fifth edition Dungeons & Dragons.

Dragonlance: Introduces the Dragonlance setting with a focus on the War of the Lance and an overview of what players and DMs need to run adventures during this world spanning conflict.

Heroes of War: Provides character creation rules highlighting core elements of the Dragonlance setting, including the kender race and new backgrounds for the Knight of Solamnia and Mage of High Sorcery magic-users. Also introduces the Lunar Sorcery sorcerer subclass with new spells that bind your character to Krynn's three mystical moons and imbues you with lunar magic.

Villains: Pits heroes against the infamous death knight Lord Soth and his army of draconians.


Notes --
  • 224 page hardcover adventure
  • D&D's setting for war
  • Set in eastern Solamnia
  • War is represented by context -- it's not goblins attacking the village, but evil forces; refugees, rumours
  • You can play anything from D&D - clerics included, although many classic D&D elements have been forgotten
  • Introductory scenarios bring you up to speed on the world so no prior research needed
 

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It's also not a problem if there are some sort of cosmic laws they are bound to, such as if the neutral gods stop being in the middle for a moment and side with the good, the evil gods must go along with it and not stop what is going to happen, and vice versa. The cataclysm might have not been condoned or performed by the good gods at all.
Part of the way it made sense to me was the theme of cosmic balance. Good had tilted the scales so far to their side that there was a very real threat of the world being destroyed. It was now time for evil to swing things back towards the middle through a horrible act. The neutral gods agreed this would bring the balance of the world closer to the middle and permitted the Cataclysm. Personally, I don't see how that isn't both consistent with the laws of the world and the alignments being discussed.
 

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Yes, true. Like I had said in one of these threads - the way I reason it is Lord Soth was their last hope to stop the Kingpriest.
in order to make that make sense I would add more context, but yeah that needs to be clear.
Once he failed, the gods of good were forced into either allowing the Kingpriest to attain godhood, which was the creation of immense evil or acquiesce to the plans as laid out by the other gods, which was the Cataclysm.
this falls into 'forced to' and I think that really is the best angle... The good god apposing but being out numbered.
Being a retributive strike, the Cataclysm's effects would be felt by the just and good, the evil as well as those who were neutral. No one would be spared. And yeah it's a mark against them (the good gods), a shame they carried (and carry) and so they turned from the world.
again this is a much better reading then the way the canon handled it so far...

Kingpriest was evil, but was doing things that would hurt all 3 sets of gods.
Good gods sent paladins and clerics but they could not stop him.
Good gods tried to eleivate rebelians and they were all put down.
Maybe even an avatar was sent and killed
Soth had his fall...
Evil gods want to blow up krynn killing all but neutral gods 'limit' this to only throwing a mountain at the main city ruining the world for generations... the good gods appose it but are out numbered.

AT THAT POINT there is an agreement made that they will all back off and let the people rebuild without direct intervention... and the evil gods (being evil) try there best to break it without the others knowing... when they are too brasin the good gods use the nonintervention agreement as "if you can interfer so can we" and we get the war of the lance...
 

The issue with what you wrote to me is the bolded part. It might not work for you and that's absolutely fine but it's incredibly arrogant to suggest your thoughts reflect society as a whole.
what part do you think I got wrong, cause I did start with the I think for the good/neutral/evil so I can only assume it is
NOW this doesn't get worse as the story ages I don't know what does... things that in 85 87 or even 95 that were seen as okay are now seen as out right evil-
so in your mind has our socioity as a whole not changed views in 30 years?
Do you really think the majority of the western world is ok with incest as being acceptable if it meant your family didn't have to share their stuff with others when they die?
no
That concept as a story element didn't stop 9.3 million people from tuning in to watch the season finale of House of the Dragon.
except as I have said before the AsoIaF world is not good vs evil it's often evil vs evil and you just choose a side for fun... no one that I know is saying "Man team green or team black are exemplars of good"
I'd argue the vast majority of people don't apply their personal morals to the media they consume.
as long as it is clear most don't (I do know some that can't watch villain protagonists) the issue is the lable of "Good vs Evil" as a theme, and "Good Gods" No one thinks Sir Jamie the kingslayer is a good guy, and no one thinks 'man Deamon Targaryn is the perfect example of a hero and good'
 

First, a softening up example: many D&D games involve duels, including duels to the death, and these are not treated as murders. No one thinks that a LG knight or samurai PC is doing an evil thing by fighting in a duel against a willing opponent.
I reject your idea that NOBODY sees that as wrong. I have played with people (mostly at Cons, but atleast once in a home game) that would argue that.
however yes, we do put some of our own real world morality aside... the more you ask for the harder the ask is.
Many D&D settings involve capital punishment - and in fact part of the logic of much "adventuring" in the classic vein of D&D is that it is retributive violence inflicted on the perpetrators of wrongdoing (bandits, Goblins, whomever).
this comes down to how your group feels... we long ago (end stage 3.5) realized we needed to use words first. We do what (We think) is a good way to handle it with 'excused for defense of self or defense of other'
we have not had a retributive death by a PC in a few years and you have to go back 15 years for it to be even more then once or twice a campagin.
As is well known, many people regard capital punishment as murder. But that needn't stop them playing D&D - because when they play D&D they suspend their real-world moral valuation and accept the fiction that capital punishment is sometimes permissible, and hence is not murder.
again most people don't want prisoners killed (not all there are people 100% pro capital punishment) the line with D&D again is defense of self and defense of other.
Strictly analogously, many people regard collective punishment - where people are punished for the wrongdoing of other members of their community - as wrong. Indeed, as I posted upthread, part of the point of a human rights framework is to transform collectivist social and political forms into individualist ones. But that needn't stop them playing RPGs set in Krynn (the Cataclysm) or Middle Earth (the Downfall of Numenor) - when they play D&D they suspend their real-world moral valuation and accept the fiction that collective punishment inflicted in the form of divine retribution is sometimes permissible, and hence not murder and a fortiori therefore not genocide.
this is a bridge too far for many...

and I would add that IF WOTC IS AIMING YOUNGER then it doesn't matter what 40's 50's and older players frequantly on enworld think as much as what teenagers think...
In other words, a D&D setting with capital punishment carried out by LG paladins doesn't ask anyone to entertain the absurd proposition that murder is good. Rather, it asks us to entertain the proposition that capital punishment is sometimes permissible.
do we have published settings in 5e with LG executioners? I only can think of Curse of Strahd and the Ice winter one and both if I recall are played as evil or at best missunderstood...
And DL/Krynn does not ask anyone to entertain the absurd proposition that genocide is good. Rather, it asks us to entertain the proposition that divine retribution carried out on a whole people is sometimes permissible.
and I propose that a majority of new players will not agree. (Not all)
In order to make it clear, I'll reiterate: someone who plays a DL game while accepting the conceit of the Cataclysm is not positing that genocide is good. Rather, the are entertaining, in the context of the fiction, the idea that the Cataclysm is not genocide because permissible collective punishment.
this strikes me as odd... how is a collective punishment of genocide not genocide? that also goes back to how is murder as punishment not murder?
I also remain puzzled that anyone who can't stomach that could nevertheless stomach entertaining the idea of LG paladins upholding the feudal order.
how many settings have real feudalism in it (offical WotC 5e settings) cause most have free land owners not serfs, very few have kings that have direct control... often they are city states with mayor/burgermeisters
 

Here's a quote from the book from Mishakal I think.

“The gods have not turned away from man—it is man who turned away from the true gods.”
It has been a while since I have read DL so I cannot be sure about how much canon the ideas shared between @GMforPowergamers and myself would be breaking, but I feel I can see a way through this alignment mire as least for my table, and keep much of the original lore, including this line you posted - since it does ring true from a particular perspective.
Remember for the simple mortal they only can only but assume what occurred in the Cataclysm, there will be dozens of theories, some closer to the truth others more ridiculous, and there would be charlatans a-plenty.

I think what we have here is a good mix, but again it has been a while since I read the books so I could be missing some important canon, which at the end of the day I'm sure could be incorporated.
 
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The Kingpriest as a position probably was filled by a good man at one point. Keep in mind, this wasn't 1 singular being but rather a position that was filled by different people who probably had their own interpretations of what Paladine's teachings were.
Except that is not what happened. Paladine wasn’t speaking theoretically about past Kingpriests. He was speaking about the Kingpriest who got that mountain dropped on him and using him as a lesson about it is dangerous when Good dominates.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Scale and presentation and this isn't a group of arguments this is 1 argument changing any of them can and would change some of the pushback.

They didn't nuke a town or an island but the world
This is said to be a reaction to too much good
This action has little (I don't think no is the right word) remorse
This action is said to be 1/3 the choice of exemplars of good.
It wasn't a reaction to too much good, though. It was the reaction to a man who became evil in the name of good.


"By the year 3 PC, Beldinas saw evil everywhere. He expanded his war by attacking some sects from the Gods of Good. Beldinas instituted the Araifas, or thought-readers, in 1 PC after Sargonnites tried using a hierarch of the court to get close to him. They were given free reign over the city, causing the deaths of many innocent people."

"Beldinas invoked the gods to allow him to destroy all evil by allowing him to become a god. He was very driven by pride, wrath, envy, and even fear into doing this."

He was crazy and/or evil.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
the same place most revolts are... nowhere.
Not following or believing in leaders doesn't allow you to overthrow them.
Plenty of people can be BOTH good and hate what he is doing AND powerless to do anything of any value against it.
We did it over taxes and unfair laws. You can overthrow the leadership for whatever reason you come up with if you win.
 

what part do you think I got wrong, cause I did start with the I think for the good/neutral/evil so I can only assume it is
I read that as you saying you thought the actions would be at best considered neutral, which I'd agree that part is pretty fair to discuss. The second part about what's acceptable in 2022? That's extremely personal and implying your thoughts reflect a large enough group to imply a product isn't viable is what I was saying comes off as pretty arrogant. Personally, I'm frequently both pleasantly surprised and horrified by things happening in our world so clearly my morals aren't 100% in-line with the world as a whole and I'd never suggest otherwise.

so in your mind has our socioity as a whole not changed views in 30 years?
For some things, sure. For others, not so much. To avoid breaking forum rules I'm not going to go into specifics and I hope I wouldn't need to anyhow, but there plenty of examples of things in pretty much every faith's religious doctrine that are observed today in 2022 that a portion of the population would find immoral and others would find it perfectly fine. The religious dogma being presented in DL isn't unique in that aspect and it clearly doesn't work for everyone as evidenced here, but it also doesn't need to. Not every piece of media is meant for 100% of the audience.

as long as it is clear most don't (I do know some that can't watch villain protagonists) the issue is the lable of "Good vs Evil" as a theme, and "Good Gods" No one thinks Sir Jamie the kingslayer is a good guy, and no one thinks 'man Deamon Targaryn is the perfect example of a hero and good'
Ultimately a story needs a protagonist though and while I also have heard people I personally know say "I can't watch HotD because I just can't get behind either side", some people don't need that absolute moral alignment with a bit of media to enjoy it. 9.3m people were comfortable enough with the morally questionable characters to tune in the night the last episode aired.
 

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