Dragonlance Dragonlance "Reimagined".

[AnotherGuy]

I do not mind the sexism and racism from the old DL setting mostly because I think from conflict great stories can arise. Most of the greatest stories are about those conflicts - just look at Willow, LotR The PCs are the exceptions who supposed to bring about change, just as the Heroes of the Lance did.

Actually, the solutions suggested do work.

The Kingpriest himself causes the Cataclysm - the ritual he tries to make himself a god fails and BOOOM. Istar is a crater. Moral of the story - don't try this at home kids.

You still get a Cataclysm, the whole Old Testament links are erased and the setting largely continues as is. There is nothing inherent in the gods smiting the Kingpriest that makes it necessary for the setting. Frankly, that's probably the least interesting (if the most contentious) element of the setup. You need the Cataclysm or the whole setting falls apart, but, the exact reason for it isn't all that important.

In fact, this way, very little needs to change. The Gods still warn the Kingpriest not to do it - but, are not allowed to directly intervene because the Balance must be maintained - if Paladine directly steps in, then Takhisis and everyone else can do the same and it's a much larger conflict with the gods taking a direct hand in things. Soth still fails and that whole story line is maintained. And the setting functions largely as it was.

Something to remember is that this is very much NOT Forgotten Realms. The gods in this setting do NOT directly appear. Even during the War of the Lance, Takhisis never actually arrives in Krynn (at least, not until possibly the very, very end). The gods never take the field and they do not have avatars, AFAIR. Fizban pops up, sure, but, again, takes no actual direct role. Only advises. ((Well, the line on that one might be a bit blurry, but, you get my meaning I hope))

I actually pretty much approve of this approach. It's a fairly minor change to the canon of the setting that smooths things over nicely and, honestly, probably makes more sense.

This would be a great change. You could still have a large percentage of the populace believing the gods created the Cataclysm and not the Kingpriest, hence the original books. For someone who leans more to the original setting with its medieval perspective this is a welcome change.

 

[Hussar]

I do not mind the sexism and racism from the old DL setting mostly because I think from conflict great stories can arise. Most of the greatest stories are about those conflicts - just look at Willow, LotR The PCs are the exceptions who supposed to bring about change, just as the Heroes of the Lance did.

This would be a great change. You could still have a large percentage of the populace believing the gods created the Cataclysm and not the Kingpriest, hence the original books. For someone who leans more to the original setting with its medieval perspective this is welcome change.

The only problem I see with this approach is it doesn't really explain why the gods go away after the Cataclysm. After all, if the Kingpriest does it, then don't all the arguements about "the gods are all evil" equally apply to the gods for not helping Ansalon after the Kingpriest blows up a large chunk of it?

But, even if we ignore that, it still doesn't explain why the gods go away. Maybe they want to remove the temptation to become gods from people? I dunno.

 

[Mecheon]

The only problem I see with this approach is it doesn't really explain why the gods go away after the Cataclysm. After all, if the Kingpriest does it, then don't all the arguements about "the gods are all evil" equally apply to the gods for not helping Ansalon after the Kingpriest blows up a large chunk of it?

Makes it a bit more tragic. The gods tried to stop the Cataclysm, they couldn't, they failed. And all the thanks they got from even trying were the people, probably not understanding (and def noticing all the clerics got whisked away, maybe they were the only ones the gods could save). So they turned on them. Denied the gods worship, denied them power

With things being that hostile and the gods actively being fought against, may have seemed like backing off and just, leaving until called on again may have been the right idea

 

[Vaalingrade]

I dunno.

A thread that is specifically talking about the new fifth edition version of Dragonlance? About how things are being changed in the new release?

I guess having a topic is now gatekeeping.

It is not gatekeeping to expect people who are weighing forth with an opinion to have at least a basic understanding of the topic.

If you have an opinion then you should be able to back that up with pesky things like facts. I guess expecting facts is now gatekeeping too. Why bother with facts? All we need is an opinion and an explanation that everyone should listen and respect that opinion.

Again, can we get a list of the required reading for this course?

Because the first trilogy isn't enough and the Twins trilogy isn't enough. And there's actual hundreds of sources, so which books do we need to read to earn the right to not be repeatedly insulted?

 

[Hussar]

Again, can we get a list of the required reading for this course?

Because the first trilogy isn't enough and the Twins trilogy isn't enough. And there's actual hundreds of sources, so which books do we need to read to earn the right to not be repeatedly insulted?

Dude, take the win. I've already agreed to what you want. You want this changed, so, let's change it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Dude, take the win. I've already agreed to what you want. You want this changed, so, let's change it.

I assume you guys mean in your own games, because WotC has certainly already written their DL adventure.

 

[Faolyn]

Sorry, I was unclear.

Draconians have the same hit dice and hit points as most dragons. That's why I said just as big.

Actually, that's also incorrect. They had 2, 3, 4, 6, and 8 hit dice back in 1e (with sivaks and aureks having the 6 and 8 HD), putting them behind the dragons, with only aureks really being close to gold dragons in terms of hp. Admittedly, they had many powers which put them ahead of 1e dragons. But dragons got a serious boost in 2e and draconians stayed the same. A 1e gold dragon had 10-12 HD and a set number of hp per die, depending on age. A 2e gold dragon had between 10 and 24 HD, a bunch of innate spells on top of the magic they could learn as they age, and a breath weapon that didn't get weaker as the dragon lost hp.

And, one more time with feeling I UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE. I AGREE. LETS CHANGE HOW THE CATACLYSM IS PRESENTED. I've said this three times now.

But we weren't really talking about that. We were talking mostly about the gatekeeping, and how one shouldn't have to have read all, most, or even some of the novels to be able to comment on or play the game. That's why I said "And this is not a question of knowing the source material. Would reading the novels make genocide more good? I say no."

 

[Faolyn]

I dunno.

A thread that is specifically talking about the new fifth edition version of Dragonlance? About how things are being changed in the new release?

I guess having a topic is now gatekeeping.

It is not gatekeeping to expect people who are weighing forth with an opinion to have at least a basic understanding of the topic.

If you have an opinion then you should be able to back that up with pesky things like facts. I guess expecting facts is now gatekeeping too. Why bother with facts? All we need is an opinion and an explanation that everyone should listen and respect that opinion.

@Fifth Element wasn't suggesting that having a topic or expecting facts are gatekeeping. What they were saying is that they are having a discussion on a forum about their opinions, not expecting that WotC is listening and taking notes and rewriting the books to fit their personal desires.

And no, personal, subjective opinions don't need facts. Trying to claim something is objectively true requires facts. It's an objectively true fact that the Krynnish Gods of Good threw a mountain and deliberately committed genocide because of the actions of one man and his minions (just so, as @DragonBelow said, they'd have a reason to come back and bring hope). It is my opinion that this means that those gods are, in fact, terrible beings who should not be considered good.

 

[Faolyn]

The only problem I see with this approach is it doesn't really explain why the gods go away after the Cataclysm. After all, if the Kingpriest does it, then don't all the arguements about "the gods are all evil" equally apply to the gods for not helping Ansalon after the Kingpriest blows up a large chunk of it?

But, even if we ignore that, it still doesn't explain why the gods go away. Maybe they want to remove the temptation to become gods from people? I dunno.

Or maybe the kingpriest's mistake temporarily banished or weakened them.

 

[DragonBelow]

(just so, as @DragonBelow said, they'd have a reason to come back and bring hope). It is my opinion that this means that those gods are, in fact, terrible beings who should not be considered good.

You misunderstood me. I was talking from the point of view of the story, the gods can't come back if they don't first leave. I never said the gods planned it that way, but the writers did.