DRAGONS, An Alternate Take on a Classic Foe

[MechaPilot]

What effect does this have on a Dragons CR?

I'm sure it raises the CR; the only question is by how much.

I haven't done the math of it, but I did look at the DMG section on calculating monster CRs, and I haven given it some thought. Here's my breakdown of it:

There are a few abilities that are mostly thematic, and that I don't see substantially adding to the dragon's CR. Destructive and Dragon Senses fall squarely into this category. Likewise, Legendary is simply meant to adjust the dragon for larger party sizes (and doesn't affect the dragon if facing a standard size or smaller party), so I don't think it adjusts the dragon's CR either.

Dragon Resistance & Dragon Hide: These undoubtedly raise the dragon's defensive CR as if the creature had extra HPs. For higher CR dragons, PCs are much more likely to have magic weapons, so this is progressively less likely to matter as the PCs reach higher levels. I can see these increasing CR more for younger dragons than for older ones; an ancient dragon is unlikely to have its CR substantially affected by these abilities (because the PCs are so likely to be magically armed by the time they face one). So, I'd say no increase for ancient, no or a +1 increase for adult (depending on its preexisting CR), and a +2 increase for a wyrmling or young dragon.

Critical Strikes & Rend Armor: This likely raises the dragon's offensive CR. I'd say +2.

Devour: This ability only comes into play if a character is reduced to zero HPs by one specific type of attack the dragon can make an average of once a round, twice if the dragon's fought in its lair (once for the attack action, again if it rages, and again if it frenzies as a lair action). The ability does heal the dragon, and it does kill the character brought to zero HPs (or damaged while unconscious). I can see this ability increasing the dragon's CR by 1.

Dragon Rage: When a party faces a dragon to the death, this ability is only guaranteed to trigger once (when the dragon drops to half or less HPs). It's probably safe to assume at least one PC crits the dragon while the group is whittling down the latter half of its HPs. So I'd say the ability triggers twice in a fight to the death. This is probably worth a +1 CR increase.

Persistent Breath: This is largely a battlefield control feature. It'll annoy PCs with some extra damage if they don't steer clear of it (equal to one-half the breath weapon's minimum damage), but it's not much damage. Even for an ancient red, we're only talking about 13 hps. At most I'd say this ability is worth a +1 increase to CR.

Lair Actions: These replace a dragon's ordinary lair actions. I'd say they create either no change or are worth a +1 increase.


In summary, I'd say the modifications Tenesian dragons get raises their CR by 5 to 7 points.

 

[Harzel]

Persistent Breath. When the dragon uses its breath weapon, the effect of the breath weapon lingers on the field of battle. Anyone who remains in the area affected by the breath weapon will take one point of damage for every two dice of damage done by the breath weapon.


Example:an ancient red dragon's breath weapon deals 26d6 damage in a 90 ft.cone. This creates a 90 ft. conical section of burning terrain that deals 13 fire damage to anyone who enters the area, or who begins or ends their turn in it.
The lasting effects of a dragon's breath weapon remain for 10 minutes (i.e. 100 rounds).

Most dragons' breath weapons are conical. Although (as usual) the PHB is sloppy about some of the associated terminology, I have always taken that to be a 3D effect. Did you envision the persistence for conical breath weapons to be taking place in three dimensions, or just in a triangular* area on "the ground"? If the latter, what happens if the breath effect does not intersect some solid surface? The conic(al) section seems to me like a natural way to envision the persistence of fire, and maybe cold, but the gas attacks might more naturally persist as an actual 3D cone. For the sake of having fewer cases, I myself might go with the 3D persistence. Not a criticism, just a thought.

*Although this brings up the point that technically the triangle is actually a special case in which the dragon has his chin on the ground**; the more general case is either an ellipse or a parabola, depending on height and angle. Perhaps this is what you meant by "conical section"? That would be close to proper terminology, though when I read it I assumed you meant the commonly envisioned triangle.

** Yeah, ok, really, really technically his chin would have to be slightly below the ground. Picky, picky, picky.

 

[Stalker0]

I like everything written except the followBig:

1) weapon and armor damage. Players have a crazy adversion to item destruction. I’ve seen worse reactions to it than a tpk. Just not worth it.

2) I think the devour is a bit strong. I like it, just tone it down a tad

 

[MechaPilot]

Most dragons' breath weapons are conical. Although (as usual) the PHB is sloppy about some of the associated terminology, I have always taken that to be a 3D effect. Did you envision the persistence for conical breath weapons to be taking place in three dimensions, or just in a triangular* area on "the ground"? If the latter, what happens if the breath effect does not intersect some solid surface? The conic(al) section seems to me like a natural way to envision the persistence of fire, and maybe cold, but the gas attacks might more naturally persist as an actual 3D cone. For the sake of having fewer cases, I myself might go with the 3D persistence. Not a criticism, just a thought.

*Although this brings up the point that technically the triangle is actually a special case in which the dragon has his chin on the ground**; the more general case is either an ellipse or a parabola, depending on height and angle. Perhaps this is what you meant by "conical section"? That would be close to proper terminology, though when I read it I assumed you meant the commonly envisioned triangle.

** Yeah, ok, really, really technically his chin would have to be slightly below the ground. Picky, picky, picky.

I assumed 3 dimensions, but I also assume some breath weapons would need a solid surface to interact with. Fire, for instance. However, poison can easily be a lingering cloud that continues to fill the whole three dimensional cone. As could cold. I could also see lightning creating a weird 3d tesla space in three dimensions as the electrical potential of the area is changed by the breath weapon.

 

[OB1]

I am definitely stealing this template for an upcoming likely fight in the outer planes.

Instead of n-1 for legendary saves, I’ll just give her 5 for being an ancient and the option to try and recharge a single resistance in lieu of recharging her breath weapon (5-6 out of lair, auto success in lair).