Dragons Are Disposable(D.A.D.)Membership drive

[Shade]

Sign me up for the opposition. I like my dragons among the toughest, most-feared, and powerful entities in the world. I have no problem with the current format of dragons, and would hate to see them nerfed to "just another monster". :\

 

[Geoff Watson]

Are. And since you made the issue personal, I feel the need to respond and clarify the purpose behind the whole B.A.D.D movement, if you will.

Dragons are, indeed, there to be killed. They are monsters designed to challenge a group of PCs, but ultimately they are defeatable. I've used dragons in my campaigns three times over the course of 25 years of DMing. The PCs were able to defeat the dragons all three times, and there were no TPKs.

HOWEVER

Dragons have a lot of abilities, physical and magical and social, and are quite powerful. In order to provide the maximum amount of challenge, DMs should be familiar with these abilities and make sure to take into account the kind of tactics a generally highly intelligent beast with hundreds of years of experience would use.

This kind of preparation would be needed for any type of similarly powerful beast.

Dragons are iconic. An encounter with them should be something adventurers (and their players) never forget. I have seen an aweful lot of forgettable encounters, though, and this is what made me Bothered.

My philosophy about dragons springs from the works of Tolkien, especially how he portrays Glaurung in the Silmarilion (and reading Children of Hurin recently only cemented this belief). Glaurung is able to manipulate and destroy many lives. Ultimately he was killed, but he left behind a lot of pain and misery. He wasn't Disposable, and he remains quite memorable.

By the way, I'm sorry for being so obnoxious.

Sorry about that, I should have used a milder word.

I was referring to a lot of the BADD advice (in the old threads, I haven't read the recent stuff) that was along the lines of 'cheat so the dragon wins', 'unlimited magic items that the PCs can't use', 'undetectable no-save traps', etc.

Geoff.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

'undetectable no-save traps', etc.

A lot of the advice along the lines of "heavily trapped and warded lair" will make ANY foe a vastly superior threat. For dragons, it too often makes them into simpering cowards, hiding in their heavily fortified lairs in fear of those nasty humans coming to kill them.

 

[shilsen]

For dragons, it too often makes them into simpering cowards, hiding in their heavily fortified lairs in fear of those nasty humans coming to kill them.

Why does intelligent use of terrain and home field advantage equate to cowardice?

 

[Mycanid]

I like the dragons to be played as they are written. Some are smart. Some are dumb. They are all dangerous. But they are not invincible.

Why not just leave it as such instead of going all off the board from one side or to the other?

 

[Aramax]

I like the dragons to be played as they are written. Some are smart. Some are dumb. They are all dangerous. But they are not invincible.

Why not just leave it as such instead of going all off the board from one side or to the other?

I dont think Im an extreme,Some of the dragons Ive run as ubber-powerful ,most not,
I just dont see them as brilliant tacticians,otherwise theyed be acting like idiots around human peasant-I just dont think of them as paranoid

 

[moritheil]

Of course you realize that this list just makes it easier for the dragons to find your characters and hunt them down.

Why does intelligent use of terrain and home field advantage equate to cowardice?

Because cowardice is the reflexive complaint of those who have been outwitted.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Of course you realize that this list just makes it easier for the dragons to find your characters and hunt them down.

Don't worry about the red dragons though - they tend to get tied up in flame wars.

The Auld Grump, closer to B.A.D.D. than D.A.D.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I think young dragons (adolescent/young adult) should appear a lot more often than they do. These are the "1st level adventurers" in dragon terms; old enough to be booted from the lair, knows enough to survive, and chock full of teenage dragon uppity/terror. This is when most of the culling occurs in dragon broods.

Older dragons, ones that exceed elven lifespans, should be right terrors.

On the flip side, I use wyverns and drakes a lot as well. It's amazing how many HD wyverns get for their CR.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Because cowardice is the reflexive complaint of those who have been outwitted.

I find that PCs going into a dragon's lair has usually been about moving the game along and being a good sport for the DM rather than about being outwitted.

The image of a dragon that remains behind layers of defenses and never leaves its lair seems to me to evoke an image of a frightened creature. The same is true for Dispater, for example. Intelligent, yes, but also perpetually afraid.