Dragons are kinda boring...

[Reynard]

I think you may be over-reacting here... isn't he just saying that he thinks that trolls ought to be cooler than they are now?

I'm just not seeing hostility there.

You are probably right -- I thought it was a dig.

I'll go back and change it.

 

[MrMyth]

Except that the dragon started already flying and why land in the first place where the enemy can attack you?
And how often do you think will the PCs be able to surprise a dragon and start next to it so that it can't take off?

But what I find really funny is that everyone says that 4E is more tactical but monsters (at least dragons) seems not to be allowed to behave in a tactically smart way because that is anti heroic.

I think the monster is perfectly free to be run into any manner the DM desires. But are you honestly criticize someone who ran a session that, apparently, delivered the perfect experience to the players? Are you advocating he would have been better off having the monster spend the entire combat flying overhead, with the wizard and ranger plinking away at it while it spends round after round of doing nothing, waiting for its breath weapon to recharge?

I understand your point, sure - why would a mobile monster allow itself to be cornered like this? But several reasons have been given - it is a brute, not artillery, so melee comes naturally to it. It is a dragon, hence arrogant - it enjoys going toe to toe with these puny mortals, and certainly wasn't going to spend the entire fight flying overhead. Once it had landed, any attempts to fly away would have resulted in several OAs, which was an aggravation it didn't want.

I mean, no one is saying you can't run your dragons in whatever fashion you desire. But clearly the way he ran his was perfectly reasonable and perfectly successful from a gaming standpoint, and that really counts for everything.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

2nd ed dragon encounter..me as DM, taught my players to always be scared of dragons..

they snuck into it's lair...draogn was sleeping, WOOT!
they unloaded on the dragon!
The real dragon was on a ledge above them, they had just had fun with it's illusion.
Dragon curled it's head down and round, into the entrance tunnel, and ganked them.
haha

looing forward to 4th ed dragons

 

[Henry]

But what I find really funny is that everyone says that 4E is more tactical but monsters (at least dragons) seems not to be allowed to behave in a tactically smart way because that is anti heroic.

Actually, they can behave just as tactically smart as a DM wants them to.

Let's take the Young Black Dragon for instance...

He could turn on his cloud of darkness, and fly 7, making it almost impossible for the melee or ranged people to hit him. Sustaining it is a minor action, so he could fly back within a short distance, let off a breath weapon, and then next round fly away, waiting somewhere between 1 and 3 rounds until the breath weapon recharges; heck, given he's clumsy maneuverability, he probably needs that long to turn around for another sweep anyway. Keep doing this ad infinitum, never remaining within melee range for more than a round, cloaked in a cloud of darkness that grants him effectively a +10 to melee attacks, and makes him immune to ranged attacks (because you don't have line of effect to him). He's not immune to area attacks, though, so his best bet is to take out the wizard first however possible, avoiding coming within range of the defenders in the party.

Now, what I've ignored is the fact that MOST of his abilities are melee-oriented. He's forgoing all his biting, clawing, tail slashes, etc. that can make hamburger out of an unprepared party. If you're thinking in 3e terms, a dragons best weapons are his LONG-ASS BREATH WEAPON, and his spells and defenses. He stays ranged as much as he can because a 3E dragon of appropriate level to a party just does not have any melee staying power; he'd get flayed to bits by a proper fighter, barbarian, or melee-type. The 3E dragon who enters melee instead of using his breath as much as possible gets his head taken off.

 

[Derren]

Anytime a dragon is in range to hit with its breath, its going to be in range of the wizard and the ranger and the warlock, at least.

Probably also the cleric and whatever basic ranged attacks the fighter, warlord and the paladin have.

Yes, but that won't change when the dragon is not flying. It is still in range of the ranger and warlock and now has to deal with the melee attacks of the warrior and paladin.

 

[hong]

If you're thinking in 3e terms, a dragons best weapons are his LONG-ASS BREATH WEAPON, and his spells and defenses.

I wanna post an XKCD pic

 

[Rechan]

Henry, lacking Line of Sight does not prevent Line of Effect. You can shoot at things that you can't see (You just get a -5 to the attack). Same with spells; the combat chapter specifically discusses firing a fireball into a dark room.

 

[Doug McCrae]

You're not just fighting a green or black in a 30x30 room. You're fighting it on a lake with lots of logs strewn about, so the dragon can play "Jaws", hitting and running, while the PCs jump across fallen logs.

This is very much the 4e style. For all encounters though, not just dragons.

 

[Henry]

Henry, lacking Line of Sight does not prevent Line of Effect. You can shoot at things that you can't see (You just get a -5 to the attack). Same with spells; the combat chapter specifically discusses firing a fireball into a dark room.

OK, still works, just not as well. The dragon has an AC 5 points better effectively. I know it wouldn't stop area effects, though.

 

[VannATLC]

You've ignored the fact that by Level 7, Wizards, Warlocks and Clerics have powers that can knock it Prone, or Immbolise it.

Personally, any dragon that doesn't drop rocks on its enemy from a few hundred feet up is a foolish one. All the rest of its abilities are there for when it has no option.

Getting knocked prone is far, far worse for it, especially in consideration of the falling damage, and OA's it would trigger,