dragons crush attack

[fl8m]

ok when a dragon decides to execute a crush attack

A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the dragons body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed at a reflex save against a DC equal to that of the dragon's breath weapon or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the dragon moves off them. If the dragon chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take crush damage each round if they don't escape.

ok so if the dragon drops out of the sky and you make your reflex save do you still take damage the first round, but aren't pinned?
or do you just avoid all damage.

also say the dragon decides to stay on top of the 4 poor people he just fell on does he make 4 different grapple checks? and how do they break down after the first attempt? does he just take a -5 per attempt? and does grappling 4 opponents at once effect his checks?

thanks for any help

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

The text seems to indicate that if you succeed at your Reflex save, you are not PINNED, but you still take damage from the dragon's butt-smash ("Crush" is an attack, right? Not just an automatic hit? Remember that the dragon can only crush creatures of three size categories less or smaller)

As for the grapple checks, its the pinned folks that need to get out of the pin. To do so, they need to beat the dragon in opposed grapple checks. The dragon will have to make as many grapple checks as there are attempts to break free from his pin, ie the dragon crushed a fighter, a cleric, a rogue and a wizard, all 6th level. The adventurers all failed their Reflex saves, so they are all pinned under the dragon. The fighter acts first. He gets 2 attempts to break free from the pin (because he has 2 attacks). The cleric, rogue and wizard only get 1 attempt to break free from the dragon's pin (on their respective turns). If any of them wins an opposed grapple check vs. the dragon, they are not pinned anymore, but should still be considered grappling. They need to succeed at another opposed grapple check to evade the grappling.

Hope this helps.

Maitre D

 

[Plane Sailing]

Of course, if the dragon is three sizes bigger than you (especially if gargantuan or colossal) the chance of beating it in a straight opposed grapple check is pretty much nil - it could roll a 1, you could roll a 20 and you're still sitting there (an elder wyrm red dragon has a total grapple check of about +65...)

Cheers

 

[fl8m]

thanks for the insight unfortunately for the pc's it's a collosal great wyrm, ah the joys of epic level combat

 

[Plane Sailing]

thanks for the insight unfortunately for the pc's it's a collosal great wyrm, ah the joys of epic level combat

The wizards had better have a quickened "get out of jail free" spell (teleport or dimension door) ready then !

Cheers