Dragons - Divine and Arcane spells known

[Saladrex]

Some dragons (for example the red ones) have the capacity of casting Arcane and divine spells.
For arcane spells, it has the known spells of the equivalent sorcerer level (ex: 19th level for a Red Great Wyrm)
For the divine spells, does it 'know' all of them (at least the divine spheres it has access) or does it have to choose (and spend a sorcerer slot of known spells for the chosen Divine Spells)?

thks

 

[Gaiden]

Dragons with sorcerer levels are treated exactly like sorcerers in that they must choose spells known. However, rather than being limited to the sorcerer list in the PHB, Dragons also get access to the Cleric list. This means that a Red Great Wyrm Dragon, can have access to both Miracle and Wish, both Heal and Disintegrate, Both Prayer and Haste, etc. However, the Dragon must still select each spell it has known - it does not just get all cleric spells as a cleric would. Moreover, the spells cast are considered arcane when cast and the dragon need not get their cleric spells from any deity.

 

[Saladrex]

Ok, but can you point where it states that on the rule or in FAQ or erratas?
Because on the MM it seems that Dragons have access to the whole cleric list (I don't have MM right now but I will quote here later ok?)


[]s

 

[Berk]

Tha Sage actually just answered that question in novembers Dragon.

 

[kreynolds]

Because on the MM it seems that Dragons have access to the whole cleric list (I don't have MM right now but I will quote here later ok?)

No. The MM, page 62, Spells (which is what I believe you are referring to), states that "A dragon knows and casts arcane spells as a sorcerer". It also states "Some dragons can also cast spells from the cleric list or cleric domains as arcane spells". So, how do sorcerers "know and cast" arcane spells? See page 50 of the PH, Spells, for more information.

In short, they are just like sorcerers.

 

[Saladrex]

No. The MM, page 62, Spells (which is what I believe you are referring to), states that "A dragon knows and casts arcane spells as a sorcerer". It also states "Some dragons can also cast spells from the cleric list or cleric domains as arcane spells". So, how do sorcerers "know and cast" arcane spells? See page 50 of the PH, Spells, for more information.

In short, they are just like sorcerers.

Well, sorry but for the Sorc. it says knows and casts arcane spells as a sorcerer and for the divine part: can cast spells from the cleric list . From that I assumed that the spell List is the choosed from arcana, with the slots from the SORC, plus ALL the ones from the divine list, and the spell slots are shared between the arcana and divine spells.

But if the sage clarified that I must have assumed wrong. Can anyone quote this part of the Dragon Magazine so I can show my friends?

Thks.

 

[kreynolds]

Well, sorry but for the Sorc. it says knows and casts arcane spells as a sorcerer and for the divine part: can cast spells from the cleric list .

You left out a very important part..."can cast spells from the cleric list or cleric domains as arcane spells".

From that I assumed that the spell List is the choosed from arcana, with the slots from the SORC, plus ALL the ones from the divine list, and the spell slots are shared between the arcana and divine spells.

The spell slots aren't shared between the arcane and divine spells, primarily because there aren't any divine spells to begin with. The dragon casts all of them as arcane spells. Just take the cleric list, or cleric domains if limited to them, and tack them onto the sorcerer spell list. The Dragon can select its known spells from that newly expanded list, but it doesn't know them all like a cleric does. That isn't even implied in the MM.

I don't intend any insult, but I think you're reading too much into it.

 

[Saladrex]

No, you're not insulting me.

Actually I DO want to play the game as it is written, for I don't like house rules nor playing wrong. [Yeah, call me LAWFUL hehe]
I might have read the MM wrong (mainly because I'm not that good in English...) and you all disgreeing with me it's a good clue of who is really wrong.

Ok <pzzt> [suddently the dragon powers disappeared]

Done!

 

[kreynolds]

and you all disgreeing with me it's a good clue of who is really wrong.

Not necessarily. I've been completely disagreed with by dozens of posters in a single thread before, and it turned out I was right anyway. Really gets under people's skin when that happens.

 

[Jaxom]

I've seen kreynolds picked apart many times, so I'll definitely agree to him being disagreed with.

Seriously, I have a Red dragon in a fight I'm currently running. He's a 13th level caster, so I can take one of his six level spells known and make it a Heal (a 6th level Cleric spell) spell instead of one selected from the Sorcerer spell list. Since he is a sorcerer he can use that spell as many times per day as a 13th sorcerer can. That's definitely not a good thing, this battle could go forever.