Dragon's Revisited [Come on in folks]

[Liquide]

I like the head of this better then the full pose, and in the full pose, one thing I thik is cool is aging the gragon, show some scars, holes in the wing etc...they are suppose to be a huge thing of legend, make em scary. Both look good though bud.

Well the full body is a remake of the one found in the MM by Mr. Lockwood (however redone a bit since I don't like to copy straight from a source), had fun doing it and mostly satisfied (not yet finished though).

The head was just something I did you play around with furls, bone structure and spikes of a dragon's face. Had no real source material for the drawing but was very fun to model. Could add a lot of detail to the "beak" and neck plates I think since it is most likey that those places are where the dragon will take the greater amount of physical damage.

And thanks for popping in Hal, now you just need to comment on the others art aswell as my newer stuff (pun intended but in a friendly manner)

 

[Liquide]

Nice. Gives the idea of dragon-as-animal, which I'm rather fond of. Dangit, it didn't reply with the pic. Well, it's Liquide's last one.

The "animal" and feral look is probably since it is based on familiar animals aswell as it only has 4 limbs instead of 6 (wings remember). It is based on a lion/cheeta with some influences from a horse (will not tell which parts). The neck is redrawn from an Allosaur model I have at home and the tail is just drawn from the head.

Thanks for the comment , the wingless one was quite fun to make (almost threw away the sketch in the early rouch draft since I wasn't satisfied but it turned out well enough it seems )

 

[Liquide]

Hi there Claudio always nice to see you pop in to these threads

Some really cool dragons there, folks! Malessa's latest dragon reminded me a lot of Valerie Valusek's work back in 2E. Liquide's wingless dragon was cool, bearing some resemblance to Lockwood's black dragon.

Well the head is actually inspired from both Lockwoods Black and Blue dragons in the MM, still tweaked everything to merge with my style a bit better. Horns are always fun to draw don't you think

Originally posted by Klaus Wolvorine, I really liked your leonine dragon, very Oriental in style. Try adding boar's tusks to the lower jaw, and a full mane going over the neck a bit. It also reminded me of a Ki-Rin (check the cover of Oriental Adventures 1E, by Jeff Easley).

Wouldn't that make it look very primal? I thougt in oriental mythos that dragons where pictured as wise intelligent beasts more then a fierce musucular and proven beast of battle. But it would certainly look cool

Originally posted by Klaus Here are some tips on drawing dragons:

Cool lets see if our views is similar then.

Originally posted by Klaus The anatomy: When drawing the skeletal dragon for Counter Pack: Dragons, I had to look over some pictures of animal skeletons, so I went over a lion, a bat and a brontosaurus. Picture this: Take a brontosaurus' neck, spine and tail, slap those on a lion's ribcage, fore and hindquarter's (but please do shrink the bronto, ok? ). Then take a bat's wings and place them just a bit behind the lion shoulders. Now cover with the apropriate muscles. A dove has strong pectorals for the flapping, so look at that for a dragon's "wing pectorals".

Well I agree on everything 'cept for the bronto tail and neck, since the bronto's neck wasn't intended (as far as science can tell today) to be used in an active and flexible manner it would look a bit static if drawn as they are supposed to be drawn. I prefer to base the neck on a big constrictor snake's body/neck since it give a better view of musles and is also a quite powerful view that supports the image and the "natural" pose of a dragons neck.

The tail also needs more flexibility then the brontos tail (a brontos tail is an extension of its spine and isn't so felixible as say a lions or even a lizards as far as sience can tell). I prefer to make it as the far end of a contrictor snake, or an extended version of a crocodiles tail.

Originally posted by Klaus The pose: You have NO idea how hard it is to fit a dragon in a 4x2 inch rectangle...

Heh , well none of my dragon sketches are smaller then an A4 and I still have problems with fitting everything in (mainly the wings since they need to be so bloody HUGE!).

Originally posted by Klaus Here's a nice trick: draw the spine of the dragon in a single line, from the tip of the tail to the base of the head, as if he were a snake of sorts. Avoid brisk turns, since it's the creature's spine. If the dragon is turning his head to see an enemy behind him, he'll turn his head, his neck and at least a bit of his forequarters.

Good solid advice, more or less the same technique I do for all things reptilian and quadraped. Easier to fit everything else in this way. After the spine I position in the shoulders to see how the weight of the creature will be distributed. When shoulders are positioned I place wings and where wings connect followed by the hind legs to place weight right. Final stage is to outline the head and the tails shape for me however (final rough draft stage that is)

Originally posted by Klaus The scales: look at pictures from crocodiles and iguanas for peebly-looking dragons (could be good for blues and blacks, who live in environments similar to gila monsters, iguanas and crocs). Iguanas also serve as cool resources for reds (specially the giant Galapago ones). For white, try fish scales, which are smaller. I like fish scales for metallic dragons, since they too have metallic hues.

All solid advice, I prefer a crocs back however, combined with bony structures from mammals to support the back though. Mainly since it gives a more primal and firece image. But solid and good advice.

Originally posted by Klaus I just did several new dragon pictures for a new edition of Counter Pack: Dragons (which was a special GenCon release), where I did full-bodied dragons, hatchlings of all cromatics (so cuuuute), plus some cool half-dragons. Ever tried doing that half red/half ogre from the MM Appendix? A really cool villain for a 3rd level party.

Draw On!

Draw on mate, and that product I wanna see soon
Please come back later or earlier for more disussion Claudio (always nice to do workshops and discuss techniques)

 

[Liquide]

OK gimme a lilbreak here, will reply to all of you I just need to make me some coffee and get me a cig first. back in a bit.

 

[Malessa]

OK gimme a lilbreak here, will reply to all of you I just need to make me some coffee and get me a cig first. back in a bit.

Same here, only lemme ask something first..

I'm going to go ahead and start painting my dragon pic, wondered if it would be alright if I posted progress report pics here so you all can help me not overdue it?

 

[Liquide]

Same here, only lemme ask something first..

I'm going to go ahead and start painting my dragon pic, wondered if it would be alright if I posted progress report pics here so you all can help me not overdue it?

do so its a workshop after all [still gettin coffee]

 

[Klaus]

Liquide -> The reason I referenced a bronto's skeleton was to get a grip on how the vertebrae would look if they had to support such a big creature. And I wanted to see the size of the bones in the legs too! As far as movement go, I usually think of my cat when doing a dragon. I don't know, I usually associate pseudodragons with cats and go from there...

Here's another good tip when designing creatures:

Creatures in hot climates tend to have bigger ears, tails and frills, to help disperse heat. Creatures in colder climates tend to have smaller ears and tails to help conserve heat.

Even though this doesn't seem to apply to fantasy creatures, if you follow general "guidelines" evolution teaches us, your creatures will look more real.

PS: Oh, the oriental dragon: Try this:
Draw a "squarish" head, as opposed to the triangular head of western dragons (which tend to look like horse heads). Add two human eyes on the front (not on the sides), a lion or tiger nose, a beard (not too long), some frills like Lockwood's gold dragon, and intead of the traditional horns, try adding antlers (like an deer's). Oh, and true oriental dragons (which would be Outsiders) are never drawn in full. They always have a cloud or something covering up at least a small section of their body, to keep the illusion that the dragon "could" be infinite. A taoist monk taught me that.

 

[Wolv0rine]

PS: Oh, the oriental dragon: Try this:
Draw a "squarish" head, as opposed to the triangular head of western dragons (which tend to look like horse heads). Add two human eyes on the front (not on the sides), a lion or tiger nose, a beard (not too long), some frills like Lockwood's gold dragon, and intead of the traditional horns, try adding antlers (like an deer's). Oh, and true oriental dragons (which would be Outsiders) are never drawn in full. They always have a cloud or something covering up at least a small section of their body, to keep the illusion that the dragon "could" be infinite. A taoist monk taught me that.

All while hoping that your Art Director doesn't assume that you're just trying to be lazy, or cover up some part of the dragon that you can't draw.

 

[Malessa]

Here's another good tip when designing creatures:

Creatures in hot climates tend to have bigger ears, tails and frills, to help disperse heat. Creatures in colder climates tend to have smaller ears and tails to help conserve heat.

Even though this doesn't seem to apply to fantasy creatures, if you follow general "guidelines" evolution teaches us, your creatures will look more real.

Thanks Klaus on all your advice to us! Learning something everyday, I wouldn't want it any other way!

 

[Malessa]

Boy Liquide, thats the longest coffee break in history!! So put the cig. and cup down already and come tell me what you think so far!

Everyone else fire away and tell me what you think thus far, I'm still not done yet, but here it is......