Dragonshield Tactics

[Irda Ranger]

I don't really care what's too powerful or not at this time. I'm just trying to learn the RAW. Judging what's "broken" comes later.

****************

DST is triggered by two things: (1) adjacent enemy shifts away, (2) enemy moves adjacent.

Notice that option #2 does not say "moves or shifts" - only "moves." Option #2 also does not say "uses a move action."

I interpret that to mean that option #2 is triggered by any non-shift voluntary movement (walk, run or charge) into a square adjacent to the Dragonshield. There are two things about that that I'm not 100% sure about.

I am not 100% sure that "move" does not include shifts. I am also not 100% sure that "into" is correct. It's possible that you trigger the DST only when you exit a square adjacent to the Dragonshield or when you exit or enter a square. The text does not say one way or the other. The only thing we have to guide us is that OA's are only triggered by an exit from an adjacent square, but we have no reason to believe it's the same either.

 

[Colmarr]

That's the point, though. It's supposed to be powerful. Kobolds aren't meant to be 1/4 HD xp fodder anymore. They're supposed to be quick fighters that are very hard to catch up to.

However, Immediate Actions are usable only once per round. So, if a player charges a Dragonshield, he can use Tactics to shift away after the charge. But, if the player then uses a move to shift next to him again, the Dragonshield is stuck there until his next turn (or until the next round, when the trigger for Tactics might again occur). It's a powerful ability, to be certain, but it's not *that* powerful.

Further to what Small Pumpkin Man said (with which I agree) also note that the bolded text in the above quote is not possible with expending an action point. After charging, you cannot take other actions without spending an action point, even if you have "spare" actions available in your turn.

 

[Colmarr]

I agree.

Don't you love it when you lure your DM out of lurking and his first post is to agree with you?

 

[thewok]

Further to what Small Pumpkin Man said (with which I agree) also note that the bolded text in the above quote is not possible with expending an action point. After charging, you cannot take other actions without spending an action point, even if you have "spare" actions available in your turn.

Correct. But it's good to point that out, since without the restriction on one immediate action per round, an action point used in such a manner would be a waste.

I like the idea of the kobold being so damned spry that he can bounce around like Ernie Reyes, Jr., in The Rundown. I like the thought of a small creature that just aggravates heroes because they can't hold on to him. The teamwork needed to take it down seems fun to me.

 

[Graf]

It just isn't clear. I'm inclined to buy the moves adjacent and shifts away wording as deliberate but it's not really clear.

WotC's needs to put up a FAQ on it.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

It just isn't clear. I'm inclined to buy the moves adjacent and shifts away wording as deliberate but it's not really clear.

WotC's needs to put up a FAQ on it.

Yes, but what they really should have done is written this rule clearly to begin with. After all of the nitnoid rules debates from editions past, I was really hoping they'd put a bit extra care into rules explanations to avoid this sort of vagueness.

Sounds like immediate actions need clarification, too (as the example of the trap provides ... does the trap trigger in reaction to the triggering conditions begin met, or in reaction to the end of an action that met the triggering conditions?)

 

[pinbot]

It seems pretty well worded to me

"immediate reaction, when an adjacent enemy shifts away or an enemy moves adjacent"

1. Reaction, not interrupt therefore the triggering move or shift action must be completed before ds uses tactics to shift. I'm only restating this because a couple late posts in this thread ignored this.

2. shift is a kind of move so...

2a - They are hard to move next to. Plink them or charge them. (or corner them, or 'pincer' them by using abilities to stack multiple moves into one pc's turn)

2b - if you try to shift away (avoiding an opportunity attack) they can shift with you

It makes sense that they can move away from any approach but they only get to pursue if you move away carefully.

 

[Markn]

OK, so I emailed Logan at WotC to get some sort of ruling on this...

Here is my email and here is his response:


Logan's Response -

I *think* you treat each square of movement separately, so option 1 would be
correct.


My Emailed question -

> There has been quite a bit of discussion regarding this ability and how
> exactly it interacts with immediate reactions. Immediate reactions state that
> they don't interrupt the action and they must resolve. So which of these two
> would be correct.
>
> Option 1 - PC is 3 squares away from Dragonshield and moves towards him. Once
> the PC gets adjacent the DS shifts 1 square away but the PC still has movement
> so he moves 1 more square then attacks.
>
> Option 2 - Same set up but the PC moves adjacent to the DS not intending to
> move anymore so his move action is done. The DS shifts and now the PC is 1
> square away with a standard action left. He could then turn it into a move
> action and get close (giving up an attack) or attack with a range
> weapon/power.
>
> I think the issue is that people are unsure of "The triggering action is
> completely resolved before you take your reaction" to mean the action as in
> standard/move/minor or action as in, finish moving adjacent, then DS shifts and
> then finish your movement.

So, unless I see any other official clarification, I would say that is as official as it gets right now!

 

[Kitsune]

I really don't see how there can be confusion here; the wording on immediate reactions is crystal-clear: they happen after the action that provoked them. If the kobold could shoot away the instant the character approached them, that would be an interrupt, not a reaction.

The triggering action is completely resolved before you take your reaction.

Does running away in the middle of the PC's move sound like the PC's action was completely resolved? No. Therefore, that is dead wrong.

It's a sneaky power, but the fact that it can only be used once a round prevents it from being insurmountable. A charge defeats it, an action point defeats it, multiple attackers defeat it. No biggie.

 

[Vendark]

I really don't see how there can be confusion here; the wording on immediate reactions is crystal-clear: they happen after the action that provoked them. If the kobold could shoot away the instant the character approached them, that would be an interrupt, not a reaction.

The triggering action is completely resolved before you take your reaction.

Does running away in the middle of the PC's move sound like the PC's action was completely resolved? No. Therefore, that is dead wrong.

The "triggering action" isn't the whole move action. It's the move adjacent.