D&D 5E Drawmij's Instant Summons: Am I Missing Something?

[travathian]

The name is invisible. And you must speak the name while casting the spell. So not only do the PCs have to know that the gems aren't normal gems, but they have to find a way to read invisible writing. True Seeing?

 

[steeldragons]

Detect Invisible...or See Invisible or whatever it is now. Arcane Sight? True Seeing most certainly. [EDIT: Pretty much any magic, spell, item or ability that lets you see through illusions will let you read invisible writing/glyphs/marks. /EDIT]

Point is, finding out the name of the items is trivial because it is on the sapphire and there's no adventure to be had hunting for items they can have brought right to them. The ones in someone else's possession, I guess, could create some.

[EDIT AGAIN: Identify tells you how to use the item it's cast on, doesn't it? I don't think anyone is going to argue these sapphires, prepared and used for this spell are mow magic items/holding a magical charge -would show up to Detect Magic, subject to Dispelling, etc... I haven't looked at the spell specifics for 5e's Identify. If so, that 1st level spell/ritual would tell you what you need to know, i.e. the invisible name of the item to be summoned.

 

[travathian]

I thought of another way to abuse this spell, but it requires 2 spellcasters with the spell, a portable hole, and lots of gems.

Mass transportation.

Sneak into vault/dragons lair. Spellcaster A uses Sending to send message to Spellcaster B to have laborers jump into portable hole, then fold it up. Spellcaster A summons portable hole, opens it. Laborers jump out. Shovel it full of treasure. Spellcaster B summons it. Second set of laborers dig treasure out of hole. Spellcaster A summons it back for a refill.


Passing a 'handkerchief' (portable hole) to a prisoner, telling them to jump into it when they see/hear a signal, waiting a moment, then it is summoned.

Tossing the portable hole on the ground, snatching a noble/royalty, jump in, and close it from the inside, then have it summoned elsewhere.

 

[raleel]

you know, outside of the holding hitch, multiple casters could cast DIS the same thing, each with their own gem attuned to it. might be something useful there.

 

[Dausuul]

This actually makes it clear that it is *really useful* for a game that actually cares about things like home bases, encumbrance, and the like -- when you can't take your whole pack of kit with you everywhere you go.

All the questions of "what good is it?!" circling around make me want to get more support for that style of play (better encumbrance rules, a reason to have a home base, etc.).

Even in that scenario, I can't see the use of this spell. Consider that the target must be:

• Important enough that, under certain circumstances, you would pay 1,000 gp to have it.
• Needed often enough that you would invest 1,000 gp to prepare a summons ahead of time.
• Yet not worth finding 10 pounds of carrying capacity in your kit to bring it with you.

The spell seems to take positive joy in cutting off every practical use. You can't use the same sapphire to target multiple items (so you can't prepare a base full of specialized items and call up the one you need right then). You can't fetch anything over 10 pounds (so you can't use it to summon your apparatus of Kwalish or other impractically heavy item). You can't reuse a sapphire. And you have to have the sapphire on your person (so if you get captured and stripped of all your gear, you can't use it, unless you're keeping the sapphire someplace really unpleasant).

 

[fuindordm]

I thought of another use recently:

If you've got a clone backup of yourself back in the castle, then you can go on very dangerous missions without risking the loss of your best equipment. If your clone wakes up, it crushes the gems and recovers your Staff of the Archmage and so forth.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Even in that scenario, I can't see the use of this spell. Consider that the target must be:

• Important enough that, under certain circumstances, you would pay 1,000 gp to have it.
• Needed often enough that you would invest 1,000 gp to prepare a summons ahead of time.
• Yet not worth finding 10 pounds of carrying capacity in your kit to bring it with you.

#1 can be pretty vital (how much is a glass of water worth in the desert, y'know?)
#2 can be pretty well-understood (how many different magical swords and staves is actually realistic to tote around?)
#3 assumes that it's easy to find 10 lbs (thinking about it realistically: imagine carrying around the 3 D&D core rulebooks everywhere)

Also potentially useful for sneaking things around. Who needs to hide their vorpal longsword when going into the fraught diplomatic meeting with the orc king that mighit be a trap? 1,000 GP lets you leave it at home but still call it up when you need it.

The spell seems to take positive joy in cutting off every practical use. You can't use the same sapphire to target multiple items (so you can't prepare a base full of specialized items and call up the one you need right then).

Well, you can with multiple sapphires.

You can't fetch anything over 10 pounds (so you can't use it to summon your apparatus of Kwalish or other impractically heavy item).

It'll work on most bits of clothing and weapons, which means it works on most magic items, too. "Oh, I didn't know we'd be fighting a white dragon...I've got a flametounge back home!"

And you have to have the sapphire on your person (so if you get captured and stripped of all your gear, you can't use it, unless you're keeping the sapphire someplace really unpleasant).

Most of the time most characters have most of their equipment, and if the DM wants to bone you out of your gear, they'll bone you out of this, too. Be a monk (or a sorcerer!) if that's what you're afraid of.

The main thing that's stopping it from being more useful is that most of the time, people don't care to track encumbrance very precisely (and I can't blame 'em!) so no one thinks too hard about that guy with four greatswords or 5 spellbooks walking around everywhere. Additionally, a lot of parties are very nomadic, so there's no "safe place" that people leave their gear when they're not using it.

 

[Dausuul]

#1 can be pretty vital (how much is a glass of water worth in the desert, y'know?)
#2 can be pretty well-understood (how many different magical swords and staves is actually realistic to tote around?)
#3 assumes that it's easy to find 10 lbs (thinking about it realistically: imagine carrying around the 3 D&D core rulebooks everywhere)

Sure, you can find plenty of objects that meet one of the criteria. But you need an object that meets all three criteria for DIS to be worthwhile, and that's almost never the case, mainly because #1 and #2 are in direct conflict with #3. What 10-pound object is important enough that you'd be willing to pay 1,000 gold to have it, and needed often enough that you'd invest that 1K gold ahead of time, and sufficiently unimportant and not-often-needed that you aren't willing to carry it around?

Also potentially useful for sneaking things around. Who needs to hide their vorpal longsword when going into the fraught diplomatic meeting with the orc king that mighit be a trap? 1,000 GP lets you leave it at home but still call it up when you need it.

This is already a niche use, and most of the time you can accomplish the same result much cheaper with a bit of illusion magic: disguise self, for example, or seeming if you're willing to use a higher-level slot.

It'll work on most bits of clothing and weapons, which means it works on most magic items, too. "Oh, I didn't know we'd be fighting a white dragon...I've got a flametounge back home!"

Just how many magic weapons have you got, that this is a worthwhile investment? Weapons are very light, and carrying two or three was quite common historically; Roman legionaries with pilum and gladius, samurai with katana and wakizashi, and so forth.

If your DM is drowning you in expensive sapphires and magic items... then you've probably got a bag of holding or a portable hole, so you still don't need DIS, except to pull mass-teleport shenanigans like Travathian suggested above. (Which is, to be fair, extremely clever.) And keep in mind that as soon as you've got 5,000 gp to spend on this kind of stuff, you can build a Leomund's secret chest instead. Much greater holding capacity, can store multiple items, reusable, and two levels lower.

 

[raleel]

I thought of another use recently:

If you've got a clone backup of yourself back in the castle, then you can go on very dangerous missions without risking the loss of your best equipment. If your clone wakes up, it crushes the gems and recovers your Staff of the Archmage and so forth.

that's a pretty good use. Particularly when combined with Demiplane - now you have a 30' room to put your clone and all your gems, backup spellbooks, etc into. Probably even keep a scroll of plane shift in there to conveniently leave to a teleportation circle you know of. No one else is really going to get into that.

Not sure about air supply, but probably enough for you to get a nap, memorize your spells, and leave at your leisure. http://health.howstuffworks.com/human-body/systems/respiratory/question98.htm suggests that you could live in there for a couple of months, barring need for food/water/elimination.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Sure, you can find plenty of objects that meet one of the criteria. But you need an object that meets all three criteria for DIS to be worthwhile, and that's almost never the case, mainly because #1 and #2 are in direct conflict with #3. What 10-pound object is important enough that you'd be willing to pay 1,000 gold to have it, and needed often enough that you'd invest that 1K gold ahead of time, and sufficiently unimportant and not-often-needed that you aren't willing to carry it around?

Oh, man, so much.

Like, a Heward's handy haversack! It's a bit of a back-end around that 10 lbs limitation.

Or maybe a Dragon Slayer longsword. Not always useful, but when it turns out that there's a dragon in the dungeon...

A Helm of Comprehending Languages when you realize no one bothered to speak Dwarven and you want to know what the Duergar in the next room are saying about you.

A Ring of Warmth when you find out that the goblins are riding winter wolves.

50 ft. of hemp rope when you're 50 ft. down the tunnel and you still don't see the end of it.

That +1 Club that you don't usually use because you have an axe that does more damage until you come into a room with skeletons...

It's situational, sure, but that situation isn't unheard of.

This is already a niche use, and most of the time you can accomplish the same result much cheaper with a bit of illusion magic: disguise self, for example, or seeming if you're willing to use a higher-level slot.

It is niche, but it's MUCH better than an illusion. Plenty of critters can see through deceptions and illusions and lies and suchlike. If you literally don't have the item...but you do have a sapphire...you're in good shape!

Just how many magic weapons have you got, that this is a worthwhile investment? Weapons are very light, and carrying two or three was quite common historically; Roman legionaries with pilum and gladius, samurai with katana and wakizashi, and so forth.

Of course, anybody who walked around with a katana and wakizashi or a pilum and a gladius would be boned the moment they had to fight a hoarde of skeletons in a D&D dungeon. If that person also had this spell, they could grab their Maul from back home and go to town.

If your DM is drowning you in expensive sapphires and magic items... then you've probably got a bag of holding or a portable hole, so you still don't need DIS, except to pull mass-teleport shenanigans like Travathian suggested above. (Which is, to be fair, extremely clever.) And keep in mind that as soon as you've got 5,000 gp to spend on this kind of stuff, you can build a Leomund's secret chest instead. Much greater holding capacity, can store multiple items, reusable, and two levels lower.

It's a 6th level spell, man! An "average" result on the CR 11-16 treasure hoard roll would give you 14,000 GP in coins, and 10,000 GP worth of gems, per character. A 1,000 GP sapphire is not an insane expenditure for someone near the peak of their performance.

And what is this "probably have a bag of holding or a portable hole" stuff? Magic items aren't subject to a la carte purchasing like that in the assumed game, so there's no telling what kind of doodads you've picked up, or have been able to purchase (or not). One can't presume that the party has any particular magical item load-out.

And Leomund's Secret Chest has one HUGE drawback: the thing could disappear forever. Woof.

The spell is pretty niche, which is part of why it makes a good Wizard spell (you prepare it if you think you might need it, you leave it in your spellbook the rest of the time), but its uselessness is being over-stated.