Drivel

[Weeble]

Weeble, I find this bickering pointless.

So a last line from on this, after this you can flame me all you want.

If you can convice your DM that your idea is balancing gamewise, it's fine by me, I wouldn't allow it in my campaign. However, you and your DM should make sure that everyone else has this opportunity as well, that means everyone with a craft skill should be allowed to essentially double his starting wealth.

If on the other hand you are the DM, I bid to consider the implications of this choice, namely as stated above, everyone with a craft skill, PCs or NPCs, should be allowed to double their starting wealth.

If recall correctly, the whole point of this thread was the idea of running a low magic campaign, that is certainly not accomplished by doing what you suggest.

Have you also considered the giant loophole you opening, if you allow your system, what's to stop the characters selling thier newly improved wealth, creating new magic items, sell them, create new .. etc. With your system thier would be no hindrances to start at 5th level with like 3 Million gp's worth of equipment.

What, sell stuff after making it like a job? Why else take the feats? And I didn't say anything about doubling starting wealth.

 

[Weeble]

Well, I try to pull threads from the rediculus.

Let me see if I understand this. As you gain levels, you still have to keep under the Starting equipment numbers? That doesn't seem right since you are not starting at that level. Also, assuming you are making the boots for other party members or other people, I would have to say that it would count against their total and not yours once you gave it to them.

Now, if you are starting at a certain level and are trying to get around the starting equipment limit by saying you made the items, I would have a problem with that.

Nope, I wasn't implying any of that.

What I was saying was that using the Item Creation Feats, you can Make Money by creating magic items. Possibly, you could exceed your average wealth by character level doing so, if you took the time to make enough magic items. No one would ever make them if you couldn't make money doing so.

 

[Crothian]

Nope, I wasn't implying any of that.

What I was saying was that using the Item Creation Feats, you can Make Money by creating magic items. Possibly, you could exceed your average wealth by character level doing so, if you took the time to make enough magic items. No one would ever make them if you couldn't make money doing so.

So, you want to make items to sell? As long as the character has the time and the resources. You'd have to find the potential buyers and haggle over price.

Personally, I'm really confused at to what the issue is. I read these arguements, but I really have no clear picture on what each side's point is.

The big question is why are your characters using a table that is for starting characters? Your character doesn't seem to be a starting character.

---Confused Crothian

 

[Weeble]

So, you want to make items to sell? As long as the character has the time and the resources. You'd have to find the potential buyers and haggle over price.

Personally, I'm really confused at to what the issue is. I read these arguements, but I really have no clear picture on what each side's point is.

The big question is why are your characters using a table that is for starting characters? Your character doesn't seem to be a starting character.

---Confused Crothian

see table 5-1 p.145

I'm saying that a PC can pass his limit, if you are following this table as a DM, by creating magic items. Others have said you can't.

 

[Crothian]

see table 5-1 p.145

I'm saying that a PC can pass his limit, if you are following this table as a DM, by creating magic items. Others have said you can't.

Now I get it. I was totally off and being stupid. I'm just going to hit head against the wall for a while on that one.

Okay, I see this limit as being a set in stone limit. I see no reason why creation your own magic items would matter. It in the end it's the total base price of the items that gets added to determine how much your stuff is worth.

 

[Weeble]

Now I get it. I was totally off and being stupid. I'm just going to hit head against the wall for a while on that one.

Okay, I see this limit as being a set in stone limit. I see no reason why creation your own magic items would matter. It in the end it's the total base price of the items that gets added to determine how much your stuff is worth.

Base price as in the price to create the magic item (raw materials) or the final price (market price)?

 

[Crothian]

Base price as in the price to create the magic item (raw materials) or the final price (market price)?

The market price is the base price. That's what all the creation feats refer to when they say base price.

 

[Weeble]

The market price is the base price. That's what all the creation feats refer to when they say base price.

Yeah, I knew that, although the market price and the base price are not Always the same. I just said that earlier because some people seemed confused about it before.

I say that a character with item creation feats should be allowed to pass their limit, or count created items at what they paid for them (part of that character's wealth). Otherwise you would be charging the character for the "magic" they put into the item, their own magic, that is.

 

[kreynolds]

I say that a character with item creation feats should be allowed to pass their limit, or count created items at what they paid for them (part of that character's wealth).

And you're dead wrong. Here's to hoping that you'll figure this out one day. Cheers.

Otherwise you would be charging the character for the "magic" they put into the item, their own magic, that is.

Nope. You're charging them to keep their power level roughly in line with everyone else.

EDIT: I feel the need to point out that your argument suddenly sounds like that of a disgruntled player seeking ammunition against his DM, rather than the argument of a DM. I apologize in advance if I'm incorrect in this.

 

[Weeble]

And you're dead wrong. Here's to hoping that you'll figure this out one day. Cheers.



Nope. You're charging them to keep their power level roughly in line with everyone else.

EDIT: I feel the need to point out that your argument suddenly sounds like that of a disgruntled player seeking ammunition against his DM, rather than the argument of a DM. I apologize in advance if I'm incorrect in this.

Good luck with this and I hope you can site appropriate rules to the contrary, but let me quote myself a few times,,,

“On the contrary, DMG p.43, “Character-Created Magic Items: A PC spellcaster can spend as MANY of the XP and gp you have awarded toward making magic items as she wishes, provided that she has the proper item creation feats and prerequisites”.”--Me

“There is no limit placed on making magic items, as I assume kreynolds suggests, above and beyond what XP and gp was awarded by the DM.
Following this, a 5th level spellcaster with 9,000gp could make magic items with market values over 12 or 13 thousand gp (easily), thus being over that 9,000gp mark. This is how you make a PROFIT creating magic items. Otherwise, no PC or NPC would bother.”---Me

“Nothing in the DMG sais I can’t do this, so I have to assume I can do this. IF I COULD NOT DO THIS, IT WOULD SAY SO.”--Me

“If there is some Force that mysteriously limits spellcasters from making items to increase their wealth beyond the normal, I would like to see the RULING. So, in your campaign, my wizard begins to mysteriously feel queezy and shaky when he makes that 2nd or 3rd pair of Boots (oh no, he is passing his limit in gp value!!!). He starts to vomit, an lo and behold, some random Rogue steels his raw materials, or his gold, or lightning strikes him for damage, and, umm, umm, he also fails a Ref save, and looses, um, um, all of the gold he needed to make them, mhuhahahahahahahaha!!!!!!”—Me

“If you want to limit the value of Character Created magic items, then go ahead. You could House Rule that Characters are adventurers and do not make magic items as a profession, thus they are only able to sell their created magic items at half their value. This would be a house rule, not a DMG rule.”--Me