D&D 5E Drop your weapons situation

[thalmin]

D&D has never been set up to accommodate that sort of thing, unless you surround them with epic NPCs who would each on their own be able to take out the whole town.

I think you either ask the players to buy-in and narrate it, come up with some clunky house rule, or accept that this game isn’t designed to do that and focus on what the system is good at, which is heroic high fantasy.

Not the answer you were looking for, I know. But right tools for the right job, and all that. You’re trying to use a paintbrush to replace a sparkplug.

I wouldn’t say “never”. AD&D 1E had a wonderful Assassination chart. It’s primary purpose was for Assassins to get an instant kill. But a second use was for any character to maybe get an instant kill on a “held or helpless” opponant.
First the DM determined if the situation warranted use of the table. (I always also determined whether an attack roll was needed and if bonus to hit or advantage were in order). The Chart looked at attacker and target levels. The attacker then rolled on the chart. If successful, target(s) reduced to 0. If unsuccessful, but still scored a hit, apply damage as normal.
We only considered a well planned and executed ambush as worthy of the chart. A sleeping target wasn’t helpless.

For the something like the OP is asking about, I would tell the players of the possible outcomes. But also it is important to inform the players that this mechanic is in place for the game before they are targetted, so maybe they get to use it themselves.

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

I really have to agree with Morrus on this one. There are way, way too few options for subduing people in DnD.

It's easier to just beat the party into submission, use healing on the ones who didn't bleed out before the fight is over, and go from there.

Beyond that? Overwhelming show of force and pray the party lets themselves be captured.

 

[GMMichael]

So, set it up in the way you think will have the most impact on your particular players, perhaps by playing to the characters' personality traits, ideals, bonds, and flaws (the ones that might best encourage the sort of outcome you want), then offer Inspiration if they go along. But ultimately, I suggest being okay with whatever outcome arises since you don't have total control over the situation.

+1 for endorsing 5e's new features, and recognizing rule 0.5: Because, players.

"Drop your weapons" makes sense in an '80s spy-thriller, because in theory, when a firearm is pointed right at someone, they're about to die. It doesn't make sense in a D&D game, because even an unarmored PC can have a pile of hit points, which means that under the combat rules, a Wand of Lead Slug Flinging cannot push a character into the death rules in the course of one round.

Did you catch the problem there? "Under the combat rules."

In D&D, someone loses hit points after combat has started, and after an opponent has made a high enough attack roll. However, if a character isn't in combat, then you don't need to worry about hit points, initiative, armor class, what-have-you. So if you tell the PCs, before anyone rolls initiative, "if you don't drop your weapons, you're probably going to die," well, rulings not rules.

#NotWotC

 

[5ekyu]

+1 for endorsing 5e's new features, and recognizing rule 0.5: Because, players.

"Drop your weapons" makes sense in an '80s spy-thriller, because in theory, when a firearm is pointed right at someone, they're about to die. It doesn't make sense in a D&D game, because even an unarmored PC can have a pile of hit points, which means that under the combat rules, a Wand of Lead Slug Flinging cannot push a character into the death rules in the course of one round.

Did you catch the problem there? "Under the combat rules."

In D&D, someone loses hit points after combat has started, and after an opponent has made a high enough attack roll. However, if a character isn't in combat, then you don't need to worry about hit points, initiative, armor class, what-have-you. So if you tell the PCs, before anyone rolls initiative, "if you don't drop your weapons, you're probably going to die," well, rulings not rules.

#NotWotC

Certainly a Gm can rule any way they want. they *can* rule that outside of post-init combat my character is subject to death from a warm breeze.

but, if some semblance of this approach of out-of-combat-bypass-all-damage-direct-to-dead was not agreed to explicitly before the game, this would be the point at which i thanked the GM and picked up my coat after handing him my character since "you obviously want to run the character more than you want me to."

a Gm deciding to totally bypass the character mechanics and the character stats and fiat death outside of combat and outside of some catastrophic event... that is incredibly dangerous ground to tread on *just* to keep your train on its single set of tracks.

Always have to wonder why some GMs seem to think "hey this would be a cool scene if the players had no choice in what happens" as often as it seems to come up!?

Some may go in for that without prior agreement, but, IMX not as many as a Gm might want to believe.

The parts about leveraging the other traits for influence, absolutely. that gives them choices and reasons to go a certain way and not a simple "GM SAYS YOU DIE OR ELSE DO THIS" club.

 

[ad_hoc]

Is this the character's story or your story? It sounds like you are writing a novel and the players are just along for the ride.

 

[Guest 6801328]

First beat the living snot out of them with a really, really, really hard encounter so that they are low on HP with spell slots used up.

Then, when they try to take a short (or long) rest, interrupt it with crossbows and orders to drop weapons. (This has the added bonus of being especially galling to the players because they'll be all "if we were fresh we'd shove those crossbows so far up you'd taste wood")

Or, as others have suggested, give up the idea because it doesn't really work with D&D.

 

[Harzel]

But right tools for the right job, and all that. You’re trying to use a paintbrush to replace a sparkplug.

Is that a problem? Damn! That must be why my car won't start.

 

[Oofta]

I'm confused by the people that say it can't be done. I get there's questions about whether it should be done, but that's a different question. In addition, as I said before, you'd be surprised by the number of people that would "rather die than surrender".

While it would be difficult to stop a high level group, it's not impossible. Simply throw more monsters. Throw multiple Tarrasques appearing in waves if you have to. To knock the PCs out instead of killing make sure that the last spell cast is not damaging, hit them with melee and knock them out or keep doing relatively small amounts of damage and have some NPCs casting Sleep spells ever other turn. Eventually it will work.

You do have to stop teleportation and other means of escape, something as simple as a Hallow spell will do that (be ready to counterspell depending on how you run it).

At a certain point it does break the unspoken rule of D&D that encounters should be "fair" in that the PCs should always have an option to win, or at least to escape to fight another day. Breaking that unspoken rule may upset some players.

 

[5ekyu]

I'm confused by the people that say it can't be done. I get there's questions about whether it should be done, but that's a different question. In addition, as I said before, you'd be surprised by the number of people that would "rather die than surrender".

While it would be difficult to stop a high level group, it's not impossible. Simply throw more monsters. Throw multiple Tarrasques appearing in waves if you have to. To knock the PCs out instead of killing make sure that the last spell cast is not damaging, hit them with melee and knock them out or keep doing relatively small amounts of damage and have some NPCs casting Sleep spells ever other turn. Eventually it will work.

You do have to stop teleportation and other means of escape, something as simple as a Hallow spell will do that (be ready to counterspell depending on how you run it).

At a certain point it does break the unspoken rule of D&D that encounters should be "fair" in that the PCs should always have an option to win, or at least to escape to fight another day. Breaking that unspoken rule may upset some players.

it depends on the definition of "it" is.

"it" as originally described is a sort of "drop your weapons" with a quick strike take down if you don't element. That does not work in a system with a large wear down mechanic beyond many of the lower levels *straight out of the book* and inventing a lot of stuff to make that event happen as planned adds a lot of fuel to the fires of "railroading rage."

The fact that it is all to put the players into a case of "no choice" GM runs is making it even more unsettling.

Nobody is disputing the issue as you describe (i think) that a Gm can add in more and more to create an encounter which overwhelms the party.

there are games which allow this kind of thing. Damage Save systems that have significant bonuses for surprise may well allow a case where you can be taken down with a flurry of attacks from surprise and pre-buffed enemies - particularly if an early de-buff hits you. those systems reflect the combat wear down differently, often with a strong edge to "ambush" and the odds start to work against you pretty quickly when you lose control of the situation. But DnD is not one of those games, out of the box.

and then there is the whole "should" thing.

 

[aco175]

Problem with dropping your weapon is compounded if it is magical and the players think they are going to lose it.

You could try and frame it with nets that drop on the PCs and grant advantage to the 8 monsters that circle each net. It is a bit heavy handed since the attack with the net will need to be high or make it a trap or such.

Another factor to think about it the type of enemy the PCs are facing. If they are soldiers from another kingdom or guards from the city, they may give up earlier than if they are goblins or gnolls who have a reputation of eating the captives or such.