OneDnD Dropping armor proficiencies and using Strength as base for armor use.

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
I really don't like scaling the dexterity mod. I don't like it on the current rules TBH, but going from 3 tiers to 6 would be worse.

I think all characters should get full dex mod to AC. I also think encumberance and a movement penalty is the best way to deal with armor weight and better than making it solely based on strength.
What do you mean by 3 tiers to 6? Both dex & strength builds get a dex bonus to AC in the table (up to +6 for leather& +1 for plate) but both dex & strength builds need a point or two with of mods or reduction of the other if they want to max out AC. It also makes it so the GM can have another way that could allow them to suit a bit of armor more towards Alice than Bob.

Movement penalties do good things for tactical grid combat & incentivizing mounts, but they often tend to just penalize heavy armor & give dex builds a free pass despite the same or similar ac. A system where both strength & dex builds need a bit of the other for the best ac could mitigate that problem by needing slightly more strength for dex builds thsn dex for dex builds or some other secondary benefit for strength builds
 

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Clint_L

Hero
I really don't like scaling the dexterity mod. I don't like it on the current rules TBH, but going from 3 tiers to 6 would be worse.

I think all characters should get full dex mod to AC. I also think encumberance and a movement penalty is the best way to deal with armor weight and better than making it solely based on strength.
It seems to me that if you give full dex mod to AC you are gonna get some crazy high ACs at low levels. Characters can already start with AC 18 just off starting equipment; let them potentially have +3 dex bonus as well and you have lots of level 1 characters with 21 AC. So now to pose a challenge you need mobs with a decent +attack roll, but then those hit hard enough that if it gets through they are likely one-shotting most low level characters.
 

ECMO3

Hero
What do you mean by 3 tiers to 6?
The current system uses 3 tiers - light armor full dex, medium armor dex up to +2, heavy armor no dex.

The method above if I read it correctly has 6 different numbers depending on specifically what kind of armor you are wearing.

IMO I fail to understand why dexterity does not help someone in plate mail. If plate and shield with 10 dexterity is 20AC, then plate and shield and 20 dexterity should be 25 and plate and shield and 6 dexterity should be 18. I don't know why we need to complicate it any more than that and if we are going to change it, then it certainly should not be more complicated IMO.

This detracts from the game when you start trying to add it up in your head - well I am wearing leather now with my full dexterity, but if I take that magical chain my AC would be lower because I lose my dex bonus, except it is magical so my AC is actually better. Unless you are a freaking expert this becomes impossible to do in a timely fashion and you spend time looking into the rule books to add this bonus and that bonus if I wear this armor, but reducing that one and the other if I wear this armor.

For most players that is going to be a huge turnoff and a substantial barrier to new players. Heck you run into a lot of players right now that put a chain shirt on their Dwarf Rogue and wonder why their AC is the same as the studded leather they discarded.
 

ECMO3

Hero
It seems to me that if you give full dex mod to AC you are gonna get some crazy high ACs at low levels. Characters can already start with AC 18 just off starting equipment; let them potentially have +3 dex bonus as well and you have lots of level 1 characters with 21 AC. So now to pose a challenge you need mobs with a decent +attack roll, but then those hit hard enough that if it gets through they are likely one-shotting most low level characters.
Sure but if we are changing rules we can compensate simply by lowering the AC value of the armor to start with.
 

Lojaan

Adventurer
The current system uses 3 tiers - light armor full dex, medium armor dex up to +2, heavy armor no dex.

The method above if I read it correctly has 6 different numbers depending on specifically what kind of armor you are wearing.

IMO I fail to understand why dexterity does not help someone in plate mail. If plate and shield with 10 dexterity is 20AC, then plate and shield and 20 dexterity should be 25 and plate and shield and 6 dexterity should be 18. I don't know why we need to complicate it any more than that and if we are going to change it, then it certainly should not be more complicated IMO.

This detracts from the game when you start trying to add it up in your head - well I am wearing leather now with my full dexterity, but if I take that magical chain my AC would be lower because I lose my dex bonus, except it is magical so my AC is actually better. Unless you are a freaking expert this becomes impossible to do in a timely fashion and you spend time looking into the rule books to add this bonus and that bonus if I wear this armor, but reducing that one and the other if I wear this armor.

For most players that is going to be a huge turnoff and a substantial barrier to new players. Heck you run into a lot of players right now that put a chain shirt on their Dwarf Rogue and wonder why their AC is the same as the studded leather they discarded.
Nah Dex caps on armor are a good thing. They enable different character archetypes. Otherwise everyone is just wearing plate.

The current popularity of 5e is evidence that the current system is not actually a huge turn off or a substantial barrier to new players.
 


CubicsRube

Hero
Supporter
The system was mentioned before but I've been running shadow of a demon lord for a number of years and the armour rules work fantastically.

A magician can get heavy armor eventually, but they will have to sacrifice agility or willpower, which are also very useful.
 


Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
Sure, can we make casting spells Int/Wis/Cha based rather than class based?

Oh, right, we only want to give away the fighter's stuff.
I know your being sarcastic, but that is not a bad idea.

I know SotDL (which does the ''armor & weapon proficiencies based on STR'' thing, btw) has a ''Power'' stat, which grants you spellcasting when it goes up, no matter your class.

In a system built around it, I could see a fighter with high wisdom or int getting some access to spellcasting if they can get their hands on scrolls to scribe.
 


ehren37

Legend
I mean, we can do away with classes, but is I think you'd get even more grief about whether it is D&D. Weapons/Armor are tied to classes. It seems they want to reinforce that, not reduce that, as seen with there not being class weapon lists, but rather classes getting simple or martial and nothing in between.
 


ECMO3

Hero
Nah Dex caps on armor are a good thing. They enable different character archetypes. Otherwise everyone is just wearing plate.

The current popularity of 5e is evidence that the current system is not actually a huge turn off or a substantial barrier to new players.

I don't like the current system, but I don't think it is a huge turn off. Having a different number for every armor (like 3E) would eb a turnoff I think.

I do not believe everyone will just wear plate. Aside from the cost, I know many of my characters shy away from plate do to the penalty on stealth.

Since 5E began I think I have only played 2 characters that wore plate armor. A Tempest Cleric/Fathomless warlock and a Dwarf Order Cleric/Enchantment Wizard I am playing right now. Every other character I have played (and it is well over 50 total) used armor that did not give disadvantage on stealth. That includes Paladins and Strength-based Fighters and Rangers.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
STR based. Hmm, that could be painful on the ranger, two weapon fighters (who already have enough going against them) and the like. I see copious exceptions, from Dwarves to Hexblades, so it becomes not meaningful - you just take a dip or play a race if you want to avoid it. And Gauntlets of Ogre Strength become highly protective items - instead of boosting a strength based by a bit as they strive to +4 tyhemselves, inctead it allows the wearer to don any armor for big AC boosts.

I'm for Strength upgrades, but I don't think this is it.
 

Amrûnril

Adventurer
Sure, can we make casting spells Int/Wis/Cha based rather than class based?

Oh, right, we only want to give away the fighter's stuff.

In general, I think this is a valid concern. In this particular case, though, the fighter's "stuff" is having a choice between similarly effective STR-based and DEX-based options. That's something I think should be given away more braodly. The fighter can get something else to compensate.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Should 1D&D just drop armor category proficiency and just use MIN STR stat for all armors?

It would give more importance to Str as an ability.
having effective Dex mod to a degree for even heaviest of armors also prevents "free" dumping of dex to 8. you would want now atleast a 12 for optimum AC.
Also Dex damage effects would now be impactful to heavy armor users.

Armor nameMin StrengthAC bonusMax Dex
Leather10+1+6
Hide12+2+5
Chainmail14+4+3
Half-plate16+6+2
Fullplate18+8+1
Buckler shield12+1n/a
Shield14+2n/a

penalty for not having required STR for specific armor would be:
speed halved,
Disadvantage on all attacks,
Disadvantage on all STR, DEX and CON saves and checks,
All targets of your DC based abilities and spells have advantage on their saves,

Why not simply say that you cannot cast spells?
For simple reason that a simple STR drain/damage should not be complete removal of caster from battle.
This way you can still heal, buff or chose to "misty step" yourself out of the armor. Trading protection for normal spell usage.
You're over balancing them into a perfect sliding scale except for full plate, but that defeats the purpose of the concept. There should be more variation than this.
 

Horwath

Hero
You're over balancing them into a perfect sliding scale except for full plate, but that defeats the purpose of the concept. There should be more variation than this.
OFC, I'm making a scale what every player will aim for.

If you want to add some crap armor that will have 1 less AC bonus for same STR and max DEX for 1/4th the price, go ahead.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
OFC, I'm making a scale what every player will aim for.

If you want to add some crap armor that will have 1 less AC bonus for same STR and max DEX for 1/4th the price, go ahead.
No I want existing armors to have more variations not be entirely a sliding scale of numbers like what you made. We're not going back to the sterility of 4e. And given what I am saying is similar to what most of the feedback you've gotten is saying, where people are talking about other variations, I'd think you'd be less cavalier in your response and listen more.
 

Clint_L

Hero
I think the actual type of armour should just be flavour text and mostly left for the player to decide, and all the PHB needs to do it list the AC, class of armour (light/medium/heavy) and any dex/str requirements/penalties, with some suggestions for the kinds of armour.

Example: AC18. Heavy armour, min str 13, no dex bonus, disadvantage on stealth. Typically some form of plate armour or the equivalent, with a minimum cost of X.
 

Horwath

Hero
No I want existing armors to have more variations not be entirely a sliding scale of numbers like what you made. We're not going back to the sterility of 4e. And given what I am saying is similar to what most of the feedback you've gotten is saying, where people are talking about other variations, I'd think you'd be less cavalier in your response and listen more.
If 5E armors had any properties that are interesting to start with, I would agree with you, but they have none.

more or less there are 3 or 4 armors in 5e:

1. studded leather
2. half plate or maybe breastplate if you care about stealth
3. full plate

everything else is level 1 or 2 filler until you buy yourself armor you want/need;

padded, leather, hide, chain shirt, scale mail, ring mail, chain mail and split are waste of space in PHB. Or at best NPC, 1/4 CR peasant armor.

for weapons, you can start with greatsword and use it from level 1 to level 20.
getting new magical is always better, but you can start with weapon that is best for you and keep it.
 

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