Druid w/Str 10 taking Power Attack?!

[Greatfrito]

In the case of said fighter, would you not allow a character to take power attack if they're under the effects of temporary ability damage when they level?

 

[green slime]

I'm not suggesting that "at the moment he levels" is the rule. Just that it's a better analogy for what Laslo was comparing to than what he had.

But should an 8th level Cleric be able to take the Improved Critical feat, even though he doesn't have a +8 BAB, just because he can cast Divine Power?

-Hyp.

Well, an 8th level cleric can't take the feat because he doesn't have a feat available (unless of course he is more than just an 8th level cleric...)

I'd not allow the cleric to take the feat Improved Critical until he gains +8 BAB, (then again I can't see that many players would want to waste a feat on something they can only use for 8 rounds / day, so perhaps allowing this wouldn't cause a big problem). I would allow the Druid to take Power Attack, And I wouldn't penalise the fighter suffering from temporary ability damage (but then again, we would wait with levelling until after everyone was in tip-top shape).

Of course, by the rules: No.

 

[Darklone]

I agree that doesn't sound right, but then again by lvl 8 a druid could technically be in a wildhape 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (if he doesn't want to partake in social situations)...

Did you never have a druid in your group who wildshaped several months into a REAL CUTE Persian kitty who got petted all the time by the girls and women of the local lord in his harem? I'd call that social interaction.

At least he said he was wildshaped all the time. The rest of the group was not able to find out if he lied.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Personally, I would allow it. After all, couldn't he just borrow the fighter's belt of giant strength long enough to level up?

Both are cheesy, but what if the fighter had been wearing the belt for say, 6 levels, turning his strength from an 8 into a 14. Could he take the feat? If so, then I'd say the druid can. 6 years, 6 minutes, what's the difference?

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Personnally, I wouldn't allow it.

Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat.

I interpret it to mean the player must meet the pre-requisite without magical help or any other shenanigans.

I'm even more strict considering I always I use point buy. If a Druid IMC didn't invest in STR it means his WIS is probably higher than a Druid who had. So basically, a Druid with 10 STR who can get Power Attack just for use when shapeshifted is gaining some of the benefit of having invested at least 5 points in STR without having actually done so. The advantage of not having invested 5+ point in STR for a druid is a higher WIS and still being able to kick ass when shapeshifted. That's enough.

So no, I wouldn't allow it.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Personnally, I wouldn't allow it.



I interpret it to mean the player must meet the pre-requisite without magical help or any other shenanigans.

That's real tough. How do you measure it - do you make him bench press certain weights or something?

I'm even more strict considering I always I use point buy. If a Druid IMC didn't invest in STR it means his WIS is probably higher than a Druid who had. So basically, a Druid with 10 STR who can get Power Attack just for use when shapeshifted is gaining some of the benefit of having invested at least 5 points in STR without having actually done so. The advantage of not having invested 5+ point in STR for a druid is a higher WIS and still being able to kick ass when shapeshifted. That's enough.

So no, I wouldn't allow it.

Personally I never really saw the point of most of the attribute requirements for feats anyway - most of them seem to make little to no sense except in a very abstract way.

So I say yeah - let them do it.

And yes, that does include the cleric with improved critical. It's certainly not an optimal use for a feat...

 

[smetzger]

I interpret it to mean the player must meet the pre-requisite without magical help or any other shenanigans.

Can anyone come up with an example monster that uses 'magical help or shenanigans' to qualify for a feat?

Are there any monsters with one of the flying feats that fly via magic?

If we can find an example then that would set a pretty strong precedent.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Can anyone come up with an example monster that uses 'magical help or shenanigans' to qualify for a feat?

Are there any monsters with one of the flying feats that fly via magic?

If we can find an example then that would set a pretty strong precedent.

I'm away from my MotW... but doesn't it let druids take feats like Snatch or Hover or Flyby Attack? Feats they only qualify for ("Fly speed", "Size Huge or larger") via Wildshape?

-Hyp.

 

[Norfleet]

Realistically, it would make sense that a character who qualifies for a feat by ANY means would be able to take it....but it would do him no good unless he could actually use the feat. For instance, a normal human fighter doesn't normally fly. But if he spends a great deal of time equipped with an item that allowed him to fly, and often fights while in flight, there's no reason why he should not learn to fight while flying. Of course, when he is NOT flying, his training in fighting while flying is, obviously, rather useless.

Thus it makes perfect sense that said druid, or somebody wearing a strength belt, would be able to learn to throw more of his strength behind an attack....but that this technique would only work while he *HAD* the strength to throw around.

 

[dcollins]

In the case of said fighter, would you not allow a character to take power attack if they're under the effects of temporary ability damage when they level?

Again, the core rules precedent is looking for an ability score which is "constant (or very nearly constant) over the previous level" (PHB ch. 9). If the fighter recently suffered ability damage, then there's no change to the options for their next level.

The rules don't recognize an in-game "moment of levelling up". If you read the language carefully, the presumption is that PCs are learning and improving their skills and abilities throughout the experiences of the previous level. The fact that we, the players, sit down and add up numbers at a particular moment in time is not reflective of what's happening in game. That (a) is how the rules are written, (b) prevents level-up cheese, and (c) also makes sense from a "realism" standpoint.

If your players are having trouble understanding this, then instituting one of the "Access and Training" variants from the DMG is a good way to emphasize it.