Druidcraft and It's Many Uses

[Vurrath]

Quick question,.. putting-out a torch or similar was exactly what i thought when i read the description,.. but i noticed that lanterns aren't EXPLICITLY listed in that list ;

i know they're meant to be protected, or as is the case with the Gust of wind spell at a-half chance to be put out,..

... when in real, descriptive-terms, it's meant to be the SPEED of the conjured wind, cooling the wick of a candle,.. but might druidcraft be moreso skill with a RANGE OF minor conjurative, evocative, and even summoning capacities? (the pattern of growth, or time-of-chemical/cell-growth reactions in a seed or pod? )

If so, a lantern might not be safe, if a concentrated cold-conjurative capacity is allowed or assumed-WITHIN that range of minor-effects,..

or maybe it's a indirect-withdrawl of O2 ? * shrugs *

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Aside from the argument, is it meant to be able to? If you were to assume-not since gust of wind is a 2nd level and spell, and so somehow that should = 'entitlement' to be able to do things better than lower-level spells,..

... then hang on,.. stop being a orders-are-everything supremicist-chump,.. to be fair, druidcraft cannot DO what gust of wind can do - it cannot move/knock over multiple opponents that fail their STR saves,.. it cannot slow enemies movement,.. and it cannot be maintained up to a minute with concentration.


So, CONSIDERING
#1 that you're only talking about a small candle-SIZED flame or a few coals ( and-NOT a roaring bonfire or kiln, etc),..

and, perhaps most-importantly ;
CONSIDERING #2
That a bunch of dwindling fire-coals would be BRIGHTENED, by wind,.. not put-out by them,..
( the accellerated O2 would increase it's combustion, not decrease it )

HOW is druidcraft SUPPOSED to be putting out some coals,..
WERE,.. it using wind?

And in that case, (if it's not supposed to be using wind, -else coals would brighten) how is it supposed to be able to put out a candle, without GENERATING wind,..

... if-NOT using cold? ( i.e. what-ELSE, if-not either? )

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THAT, suggests,
it IS, cold,.. conjured-cold, or something that affects combustion, in modern physics terms.

and so THAT raises, the I think fair-question, as to whether or not lanterns should've been not-specified in that listing.

AND then maybe-also,.. if there needs to be a clarification from
the-powers-that-be,
in D&D.

( Gust also has advantages, by the way, that druidcraft would ALSO not-have, so allowing lanterns to be put out via druidcraft, might NOT be unfair for it, too. )



In terms of fairness, perhaps small campfires should NOT be able to be put out by druidcraft, if it IS, meant, to be only a small-candle-sized micro-gust, and should also be not-listed.

sigh... why didn't they just say candle & torch? exposed-FLAME.

 

[Zaukrie]

I had a BRAND NEW player try to use it to create a hurricane.....nice teachable moment....

 

[J.Quondam]

I had a BRAND NEW player try to use it to create a hurricane.....nice teachable moment....

Should have tried a tempest... in a teacup.

 

[tommybahama]

I had a BRAND NEW player try to use it to create a hurricane.....nice teachable moment....

You should have said sure, you create a gust of wind that creates a hurricaine via the butterfly effect in Kara-Tur that wipes out a small fleet of fishing boats.

 

[fearsomepirate]

My druid pretty consistently used it for DUDE WEED LMAO bonding with NPCs. I've never even touched the stuff, myself.

 

[cusman]

More to DEFCON1's point, I've found this problem especially try in organized play. Perhaps to avoid complaints of partiality or failing to follow the rule, many AL DMs just call for skill checks. I've also noted that many players seem annoyed by attempts by other players to roleplay out scenes.

Outside of AL games, I think DMs have a lot of ways to reward creativity, which would make the use of cantrips like prestidigitation and druidcraft shine.

My preferred approach is to adjust the DC number. That may not be proper according to RAW. But giving advantage seems like such a blunt instrument. Here is how I look at it.

Grumpy McStabbyspear the town guard may not be inclined to gossip with the PCs who are new to town. The recent rains soaked the kindling and he can't light the brazier he normally warms himself with on cold evenings--and nobody in the town watch thought to bring dry kindling to him. He's cold, miserable, underpaid, doesn't feel respected, and he and his wife had an argument in the morning. He is not happy standing out in the cold but is also not looking forward to going home to a crabby wife.

The PC, Doe-ai Treehugger, approaches, and comments on the cold. She asks if she can light the fire at the brazier and warm herself. Grumpy complains that the wood is soaked. But that's no obstacle to Doe-ai, who uses Druidcraft to start the fire. As the fire warms the two, Doe-ai continues the chit-chat, asking Grumpy about his family, etc. She learns he has a young daughter. She takes out a seed of a rare orchid, puts some dirt in small bag, wets it with her water flask, and used druid craft to sprout it and cause it to bloom, "here, I think your daughter would like this." "Oh, she will LOVE it, as will the missus" says Grumpy whose eyes light up in wonder and appreciation.

Only now does Doe-ai begin to ply him for information about the town and NPCs the party needs to learn about.

Persuasion DC if the player simply comes upon the guard and says "I'm going to make persuasion check to try to learn X information from the guard" = 18.
DC after lighting the fire = 15
DC after the flower = 10 AND I would give inspiration if the character didn't already have it.

Depending on the nature of the information, I may also just make it an auto-success. For example, if the information is not sensitive.

RAW, skill checks are the SOLE property of the DM. They (DMs) listen to the Player describe what the Character is up to or attempting via some specific action (your example around the brazier is EXCELLENT), the DM adjusts the DC (usually by increments) and looks at the Player's character data and sees..... "Wow with 4 or 5 minus 5s to the DC, this becomes a sweet fact finding operation!" To the player, "This is what you learn..." The game moves on, the story is richer, the player has had a public win (albeit small) at the table, Fun was had.
Defcon1's comment with DMs just asking for a flat 'roll X' is a clumsy carry-over from previous editions. The flat roll style often leads to a bogged game when the dice (just a bit of plastic) fails to produce any viable result. Now the player is stymied, the DMs scenario swerves into "Oh wow, what do I do now?" territory, or the DM has to somehow fudge the story to get back on track.

 

[Necrozius]

I’ve found that the issue that DEFCON1 brought up is also a problem with Illusions. I’ve had DMs ask me to make Deception checks to make sure that my illusion spells actually work as intended (despite using up a spell slot). It is frustrating and discourages creative thinking outside of combat.

edit: these DMs would say no to letting you use firebolt to set something on fire.