Dual wielding shield Fighter

[Beautiful-Decay]

Hello everyone. I'm seeking a few advices in D&D 3.5

I've discusses a little with some friends of mine, about the shield bonus when calculating AC. Player's Handbook discribes Shield Bonus "The shield bonus from a shield dosen't stack with other effects that grants a shield bonus, such as shield spell" - Yes ofc' I see that meaning in this; you can't cast a spell that provides a shield when you already have one? But wearing two shields should stack? atleast cover something. - How bad you might be at covering you with a shield it stills cover some % of your body?

So my question is, what would you do/say to this; A fighter wearing two shields gets more AC? or cover (something?) or would you deny him more AC.

Another question related to this discussion is Spikes. If I've understood DM's Guide well... Magic items have somekind of "maximum slots" available for enchanting (like Bashing, Returning, Thowing and +X etc) Since spikes on a shield is discribed as a weapon "not linked" to the shields original slots but yet melted together, can I enchant my spikes with "Returning Enchant" and make my spikes return to me when I throw my shield? If I throw my spikes away I guess my shield flies with it, since they are linked together? so can I spare slots that way for my shield enchants?

Last question; what's the penalty for Shield Bash with a large shield while being medium size? I wan't as much damage as I'm able to get with shieldbash via. PHB, DM's Guide I and MM I.

Any suggestions to how to build this character atm I've done him like this (can still be edited); Half orc, Stats 21 str, dex 16, int 13, Wis 8, Cha 6. Bought two Large Heavy Steel Spiked Shields and thought about the feats;
Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Shield Bash, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Weapon Focus (Heavy Steel Spiked Shields) (fighter lvl 4.) to gain acces to Weapon Specialization.

 

[Sekhmet]

As the DM, I'd allow TWF with Shields to provide both shield's AC adjustment regularly with both shield's penalty adjustments. IE: Two Heavy Steel Shields would give 4 AC, -4 Armor Penalty, 30% Arcane Spell Failure, etc.

However, remember that you lose AC bonus from shields when you Shield Bash with them, without the Imp. Shield Bash feat.

Cover is far too impressive to be granted simply by wearing two shields, unless you somehow manage to wear two Tower Shields simultaneously.

Shield Spikes stack with a Shield's total modifier level, of which most items can only reach +10.
You cannot put Returning on a weapon that is not a ranged weapon (ie: has no range increment).

Shield Bashing is considered an off-hand melee attack, and you only lose the AC bonus from your shield for the round that you use a Bash attack; unless you have Improved Shield Bash, in which case there is no penalty.

 

[DumbPaladin]

Sekhmet might allow the shield bonuses to stack, but I would not.

Asking for two shield bonuses (because you use two shields) sounds just as wrong and in violation of RAW as wearing two suits of armor (and gaining two armor bonuses) or wearing two rings of deflection +5 (and gaining both deflection bonuses) or casting two 11th level resist energy (fire) spells (and gaining resist fire 60) or any other "stacking" of the exact same effect.

I'd give such a person 1 shield bonus. I would highly recommend against them trying to create such a character. Weapons do more damage than and can more efficiently kill monsters than shields, anyway.

 

[Dandu]

Shield bonus does not stack by RAW. Period.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I made a bodyguard once, a fighter/mage type that used two shields, he was very flavorful, a fun character. You can't get the shield bonus to AC twice, however depending on your allowed books/sources, there are a significant number of feats/maneuvers/teamwork benefits/etc... that require you to forfeit a shield's bonus to AC for the round for some other effect (usually protecting an ally; did I mention this was a bodyguard character yet?). So you CAN use those things and still retain your other shield's AC bonus for yourself. It's a perfectly legal and interesting tactic.

Also notable is that you can divvy up shield enhancements between the two, or have one for "pure AC" (upgrade immediately to +5 without any special properties at all, except Bashing, which is just plain made of win and should go on both) and the other a +1 shield loaded with properties like Fortification, Reflecting, etc... Using the former shield for the AC bonus and the latter as extra boons, of course.

 

[Beautiful-Decay]

- Thanks for all your answars so far!

My idea was to buy two Large Heavy Steel Spiked Shields, while being medium size to get the look-a-like two Tower Shields (which was why I suggested the ability "Cover") I didn't wan't to wear tower shields 'cause of their penalty "can't bash with these kind of shields." And ofc' the penalties towards Armor Check-penalty should stack, spell failure % etc.

But yes, the "Buff Shield" (Tower Shield for +4 AC) and the "Damage Shield" (Heavy Steel Spiked Shield +2 AC) atm. I'm only level 4. So I guess a Tower Shield to give AC is fine so far (since I didn't have place for TWF yet.) And then ofc' the feat; Improved Shield Bash would be waste since the Tower Shield would apply to defense while the "Damage Shield" made it's attack. That could remove a feat and be a place for another.

Ranged Attacks; The "Damage Shield needs the following enchantments; "Throwing, Returning & Bashing." then ofc the +5 attack/hit bonus. (then it's +10.) Combined with my feats this shield would be able to "fly and return to me in one round up to 60 ft. (20 ft. is "normal if I remember right", +10 for throwing enchantment, and x2 for Far Shot." This combination makes it a 60 ft. flying bashing shield of 3d6+Str. (combined with an acces to enlarge could make it 4d6+Str ofc. - So I'm looking into that, to make it as cheap as possible.)

(1d4 is a medium sized shields damage, these are large sized; 1d6. + spikes; 1d8. + Bashing; 3d6. (+ enlarge 4d6 though.)

Any suggestions and advices.

 

[DumbPaladin]

Your idea doesn't work under the D&D 3.5 edition rules, so I have no suggestion.

If your homebrew game allows changing of rules as you & the DM see fit, then I'd say you don't really need anyone's advice; do what you want to do. If you're wanting to follow the Player's Handbook as written, then it's a no go.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The PHB2 has a couple feats related to ranged shield attacks, look for "Sling Shield." Might be useful, rather than spending all that money on upgrades. Also look at Bloodstorm Blade prestige class in Tome of Battle. With 4 levels in it, you can the ability to throw any melee weapon with a 10 ft range increment without penalty, and can ricochet it back and forth such that you get the weapon back in your hand immediately after each attack (so you can full attack with the same weapon). Much more efficient than Throwing and Returning properties.

From there, you can find ways to improve the range increment. Gauntlets of Extended Range in the Magic Item Compendium are only a few thousand gp and double your range increments with thrown weapons. You might also want a lesser weapon crystal of return (also in MIC) for the throwing shield pre-Bloodstorm Blade 4. For a trivial amount of money, you attach that to the weapon and it can now be drawn as a free action and you can expend a move action to call it back to your hand from up to 30 ft away, very handy for a thrower build. (For your defense shield, I recommend the shield crystal of arrow protection from MIC, for a bonus against all ranged attacks including ranged touch).

Good luck on the captain america build!

Other random advice:
Don't use a tower shield. The penalties are annoying and with the right feat selection, you'll benefit heavily from using the same shield in each hand. My character used two (mithral, cause he was a caster) heavy shields with the Agile Shield Fighter feat from PHB2. It's just like TWF, but for shields only, no insane dex requirement, and it lets you use a heavy shield in the offhand without additional penalty (since it's normally a one handed weapon).

The Devoted Spirit discipline in Tome of Battle has two maneuvers that are awesome for shield users. It's only available to Crusaders, but you can use feats and devoted spirit amulet to get access. At level 2 you have Shield Block, an immediate action to give an adjacent ally your shield AC bonus +4, which stacks with any shield bonus s/he has. This is easy to get and you should go for it. At level 7 (unlikely you'll ever get it, it's so high) there's another one, Shield Counter (I think it's called). Works just like block, except this time you get an immediate action attack with the shield at a -2 penalty. If you hit, you do damage as normal and automatically disrupt the attack.

PHB2 has the Wall of Steel teamwork benefit, which is also viewable on page 83 of this pdf. You don't need a tower shield equipped to use it, just proficiency in them (ie, a fighter level). As a swift action, you give someone your shield's AC bonus for the round, and it stacks with any he already has. I think PHB2 also explains teamwork benefits if you haven't heard of them before. They're basically freebies a group can get every 4 levels that rely on synchronization or teamwork in some fashion, I love them. That page and the PHB2 also has "Team Shield Maneuver" which could be a life-saver in the right situation, but maybe not as important.

PHB2 has Shield Specialization feat for +1 to your shield AC (which also helps when you're applying it to others) and Shield Ward, which makes your shield AC apply against touch attacks and as a bonus on your defense against various maneuvers. I highly recommend these feats.

I guess in conclusion, PHB2, Tome of Battle, and Magic Item Compendium are by far and away the most useful sourcebooks for you.

 

[Beautiful-Decay]

I can't use anything that isn't in the following books; PHB1, MM1 and DM's Guide 1.

- Why dosen't the build work? DumbPaladin.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I can't use anything that isn't in the following books; PHB1, MM1 and DM's Guide 1.

Then make another build. Sorry to be mean, but even with those books (PHB2, MIC, ToB), it's still an underpowered build that's directly going against system norms and expectations. Without those books, a dual shield user, and especially a THROWN shield user is just a joke character. Be a cleric with the Quickdraw feat that just carries around a crapload of shields to chuck and eat the -4 improvised weapon attack penalty if you must, but no matter what you build, any serious analysis of attack and damage probablity would tell you that even if you sank every possible monetary and feat resource you could into throwing shields, you'd be better off hitting someone with a sword in almost any scenario.