Duelist PrC Questions

[Thain]

Maybe you guys can help, with regards to the Duelist class from Dragon #275, I have apair of questions:

1) The prereq's, while reasonable, do make it tricky to get into the class. It'seasy enough to fulfil the Feats, but what about the skills and the BAB? None of the 1/1 BAB classes have these skills... and the idea is to get into the class as soon as possible.

The prereq's are:

BAB 6+
Perform 3 ranks
Tumble 5 ranks

Dodge, Weapon Prof (rapier), Ambidexterity, and Mobility


2) The wording of the Precise Strike(ex) ability is really vauge. It does a very good job of telling you what it does, but not how often you can use it... Excerpt follows:

Precise Strike
At 2nd level the Duelist gains the extraordinary ability to strike precisely with a ligth piercing weapon, gains a bonus +1D6 damage added to the normal damage roll. When making a precise strike the duelist cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand, although she can defend with it (or, if she has the proficency, a shield).

It then goes on to explain that the damage increases over the course of the PrC, and that you can only precise strike things subject to crits, a la Sneak Attack, and it then points out that this damage is stackable with Sneak Attack.

Okay, so here's my question, when can the Duelist use this ability?

A: Every time she makes an attack with a rapier, as long as she's not fighting with the weapon in her other hand? (This seems overly powerful, as by 8th every hit from your rapier does 4D6 base damage )

B: Is it Sneak Attack by another name, meaning it is subject to the same rules- denied Dex, etc? (This seems counter-intuitive, the class is a one-on-one flashy fighter, Swashbucklers don't lurk in a fight, they go head-to-head )

C: Or is it limited to a certain number of times per day? (This seems odd too...)


HELP!?!?

 

[Crothian]

1) Ya, the class is best from a fighter/rogue combo. On needs to be at least 7th level to get there.

2) Precise strike is all the time. Yes, it is a powerful ability.

 

[Antikinesis]

Is this identical with the Duelist described in Sword and Fist?

I've been treating precise strike just like sneak attack with my duelist. Looks like I might have been understating the damage on occasion.

-AK

 

[LokiDR]

As I read it, precise strike is a standard action, being an exceptional ability. You can choose not to use it, use two weapons instead, or perform a full attack. I don't believe this is contradicted by the duel example in sword and fist, p67.

 

[wolff96]

1) The prereq's, while reasonable, do make it tricky to get into the class. It'seasy enough to fulfil the Feats, but what about the skills and the BAB?

You have a couple of options. One is the "Cosmopolitan" feat from FR, which makes any non-exclusive cross-class skill into a class skill. Another option is to go fighter/rogue (the fastest). Or you can go fighter and buy the ranks cross class and get into the class a level or two later.

Bards -- using enhancement magic -- make surprisingly good duelists as well, but take longer to get into the PrC due to the medium BAB progression.

2) The wording of the Precise Strike(ex) ability is really vauge. It does a very good job of telling you what it does, but not how often you can use it...

Precise strike works with every single attack that isn't against a creature immune to critical hits. Armor of Fortification also blocks this ability. You give up any off-hand attacks you might have to get it.

Essentially, it's a way to make a primary fighter -- which the Duelist is intended to be -- that can compete in terms of damage with the super-strong fighter that wields a two-handed great sword.

And the version from Sword & Fist only gets Precise Strike at 2nd, 6th, and 10th levels, which is far more balanced.

 

[LokiDR]

Re: Re: Duelist PrC Questions

Precise strike works with every single attack that isn't against a creature immune to critical hits. Armor of Fortification also blocks this ability. You give up any off-hand attacks you might have to get it.
[/B]

Do you have an FAQ/Sage reference on that, or is it your conserted opinion.

 

[Storm Raven]

Re: Re: Re: Duelist PrC Questions

Do you have an FAQ/Sage reference on that, or is it your conserted opinion.

Umm, since his point is that the precise strike ability applies when the ability description says it does, I'm not sure what one would need an additional reference to support his position.

 

[LokiDR]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Duelist PrC Questions

Umm, since his point is that the precise strike ability applies when the ability description says it does, I'm not sure what one would need an additional reference to support his position.

If someone asked, it must not be that clear. I agree with Thain that it is vague.

 

[Thain]

Why I asked

I asked because I found it unclear, although to be honest, wolf96's explaination was exactly what I had been thinking. Give up one's off-hand weapon attack, and you can do front-line worthy damage with a rapier.

I am deathly afraid my GM will rule that it works as a sneak attack, which neuters the class, IMO. Also, I don't have a copy of S&F, and thought that the class might have been in there, and possibly the ability had been rewritten.

Second question, if "the duelist cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand, although she can defend with it" it stikes me that it would be a very logical (and darn near twinky) tactic to use a +2 Dagger of Defending...

Ye, Gods... I love this PrC!

Now, if I can track down a copy of FRCS to give that "Cosmopolitan" feat a once over.

 

[Sejs]

Or the Off-Hand Parry feat.


Really makes the rapier in one hand, main gauche in the other duelist shine. No magic needed.

^_^