Dungeon #110

[Grummore]

About Darksun:

1- Did he mentionned how he intend to explain where does come from the maenads and the elan (which is male "moose" in french) in a setting where the plane and world sphere are closed to all the others worlds?

2- Why having converted monsters that as already been converted by athas.org in a pdf document of about 200 pages (without images already) (lots of monsters!!!)?

 

[Ranger REG]

The odd thing to me is that when Dragon ran that revival of old campaign settings with new material thing, it generated a lot of interest (on these boards at least...yeah yeah I know we're not representative) and people asked if it could be ongoing, and Erik replied that he didn't think there would be enough interest to make it ongoing. My response is that anecdotal evidence suggests that such a feature would be more popular than minigames, but then again I don't have marketing data at hand eh...

As long they don't touch the mini-games or reduce the number of mini-games a year, I don't mind the Campaign Classics, but it is better serve in Dragon magazine.

HOWEVER, I don't mind crossover treatment, like Dark Sun.

Unfortunately, not many people (especially those who run the "official FAN web site") feel that DS do not deserve this kind of treatment.

P.S. Don't touch my mini-games.

 

[Erebus]

Unfortunately, not many people (especially those who run the "official FAN web site") feel that DS do not deserve this kind of treatment.

Yeah, but that's just because they're bitter. They don't own the rights to DS yet they see it as their baby since they're been taking care of it since the setting was "dumped" with the advent of 3e. AFAIAC, it's WotC's property and if they want to release a new version, they're completely within their rights. Does anyone (outside of those who run the site) actually use athas.org material anyway? That's not meant as an insult or anything - I'm actually really curious to know.

 

[Alzrius]

1- Did he mentionned how he intend to explain where does come from the maenads and the elan (which is male "moose" in french) in a setting where the plane and world sphere are closed to all the others worlds?

Hm, I thought I made this clear in the summation I gave above.

The elan were created by psionicists of The Order, roughly around the time of the old campaign setting of DS (about three hundred years ago), in and around Nibenay. When The Order fell apart, they were freed, and even today most of them are found in Nibenay.

The maenads are somewhat more mysterious. When Andropinis was imprisoned (in The Cerulean Storm) in the Black, he was actually confined in a demiplane in the Black. However, using his own considerable power, he found an indirect escape route; moving from demiplane to demiplane. In one demiplane, he found the maenads, who were likewise trapped in the Black. He managed to enact a ritual that freed themselves and him, bringing them to Athas with him (this was about a century ago). It's implied that they somehow were involved in this ritual, since it mentions that some maenads are bitter that his promises about better lives have gone unfulfilled, and some of them are bitter that he has forgotten "the maenads who sacrificed so much to free him from the Black."

2- Why having converted monsters that as already been converted by athas.org in a pdf document of about 200 pages (without images already) (lots of monsters!!!)?

I'm the wrong person to ask here, and I'm not stepping into the mire of this debate. Personally, I think it's better for the magazine to print DS monsters instead of just referring people to athas.org.

 

[rounser]

As long they don't touch the mini-games or reduce the number of mini-games a year, I don't mind the Campaign Classics, but it is better serve in Dragon magazine.

I disagree. Ephemera, non-fantasy-genre stuff and stuff which you read and never use has always been primarily Dragon magazine's domain, which is why I think Dungeon magazine followers are so intolerant of what was once more or less a pure D&D vehicle in it's "glory days", and why I expect that if there has to be something which isn't adventures in Dungeon, D&D setting material would be a lot more welcome - at least it's a lot more relevant to adapt than another rules excursion into another genre. Dragon magazine fans are used to a variety of games, non-applicable to game articles (like reviews and short stories) and genres being covered in their mag.

 

[qstor]

Alzrius thanks for the update. can't wait to get mine in the mail!

Mike

 

[Grummore]

Yeah, but that's just because they're bitter. They don't own the rights to DS yet they see it as their baby since they're been taking care of it since the setting was "dumped" with the advent of 3e. AFAIAC, it's WotC's property and if they want to release a new version, they're completely within their rights. Does anyone (outside of those who run the site) actually use athas.org material anyway? That's not meant as an insult or anything - I'm actually really curious to know.

Of course they don't own the right. It's like a factory, your boss own the plant, but it give you instruction for a final product. What happen if, after FOUR years of job on something, you get a wonderful product and all of the sudden, he buy the SAME thing you worked on for 4 year from another company. That's VERY frustrating.

Yes, it's their right to ask for a new version, but what is they DIDNT even considered the first one (athas.org one) ? Hum? That LEAST consideration would have been to look at the work of the peoples who worked all this time for you without you to worry about a dead setting. They KEPT the setting alive all these year, they should deserve more respect.

Btw, before asking if someone actually use these rules, go where peoples speak about it and go to the WotC darksun board and you will see plenty of peoples using it; I am one of these. The WotC DS board is a VERY active one and healthy. You would be surprised to see how many competents peoples are there (I do not include myself in these peoples but I try to do my best).

Not only have they produced something of quality, balanced to d20, find game guru to balance their things, have peoples to do a good adventures and fluff things, but they have used the power of the community to playtest and find ideas on the settings. I doubt Dragon mag as done this.

And like you said "That's not meant as an insult or anything - I'm actually really curious to know" if you ever when to the DS board, athas.org site or the couple of DS sites that worth over the net. You would see the incredible job that as been done there.

Thanks.

 

[Grummore]

Hm, I thought I made this clear in the summation I gave above.

The elan were created by psionicists of The Order, roughly around the time of the old campaign setting of DS (about three hundred years ago), in and around Nibenay. When The Order fell apart, they were freed, and even today most of them are found in Nibenay.

The maenads are somewhat more mysterious.

Yes, sorry, I missed that part of your explanation about Elan. Thanks for the maenads answer.

I'm the wrong person to ask here, and I'm not stepping into the mire of this debate. Personally, I think it's better for the magazine to print DS monsters instead of just referring people to athas.org.

I understand it's better for a magazine to print monsters for a settings, but why didnt they bothered have the same monsters than athas.org? They could have at least share their though and they could have share informations and creates the SAME monsters, no? Just look at the Mekillot which is CR 7 in Noonan conversion... At athas.org, it's CR 12 ! Geez it's a big difference! How can he explain that such big creature as a pathetic CR 7? Well... I though IMHO that they SHOULD have converge to ONE conversion so there wouldnt be two over the DS community.

Another example of patheticness: the Half-giant from WotC that will be in the new PsiHB; it's soooooo weak it's not half-giant, it's a man with big muscles! The half-giant was developped in Darksun, why having destroy the feeling of a REAL half-giant with such absurdity? That's what I said in the earlier post when I meant that they SHOULD at least consider what as already been made.

Please peoples, before doing anymore post about darksun, if you dont know what's been done, at least go to athas.org .

 

[irdeggman]

Yeah, but that's just because they're bitter. They don't own the rights to DS yet they see it as their baby since they're been taking care of it since the setting was "dumped" with the advent of 3e. AFAIAC, it's WotC's property and if they want to release a new version, they're completely within their rights. Does anyone (outside of those who run the site) actually use athas.org material anyway? That's not meant as an insult or anything - I'm actually really curious to know.

And if WotC published something no one at Athas.org would have flinched. Unfortuneatly WotC no longer owns Dragon or Dungeon and these "official" products are being published by a group that has nothing more than a passing interest in the setting. That is, in order to make any money Paizo (the company that now owns Dragon and Dungeon) cannot devote any significant amount of space to any one campaign setting, except of course Forgotten Realms since it is the 'money maker'.

So it is indeed more than being bitter which is a sad statement to make to degrade those at Athas.org (and the Dark Sun boards) in that manner. Remember that the group at Atha.org prepared it but it went out for playtesting and comment by the fans with many comment being cycled through the Dark Sun boards.

 

[Erebus]

Yes, it's their right to ask for a new version, but what is they DIDNT even considered the first one (athas.org one) ? Hum? That LEAST consideration would have been to look at the work of the peoples who worked all this time for you without you to worry about a dead setting. They KEPT the setting alive all these year, they should deserve more respect.

Who's to say WotC didn't consider their work? Maybe they simply didn't like what they saw. I've seen some of the material produced by athas.org and I wasn't all that blown away by it, but that's just me. Also, the DS setting never "died" for me. I still have all my DS material even after getting rid of my other 2e books. In fact, I've gone as far as to buy OoP DS stuff in hopes of completing my collection.

Btw, before asking if someone actually use these rules, go where peoples speak about it and go to the WotC darksun board and you will see plenty of peoples using it; I am one of these. The WotC DS board is a VERY active one and healthy. You would be surprised to see how many competents peoples are there (I do not include myself in these peoples but I try to do my best).

I've been to the DS boards. It's pretty apparent not everyone there uses the athas.org material when a lot of people are posting their own d20 conversions and/or links to their own DS website. Perhaps I should clarify my question: Besides athas.org and their most ardent followers, what percentage of DS fans use their material? I mean, I consider myself a fan of DS and I support a DS revival, but I don't use any of their material. Again, of the thousands of DS fans, how many of them (%) actually do? They may be the "official fan site" but their material is far from official.

Not only have they produced something of quality, balanced to d20, find game guru to balance their things, have peoples to do a good adventures and fluff things, but they have used the power of the community to playtest and find ideas on the settings. I doubt Dragon mag as done this.

Perhaps. However, I'd counter that probably more DS fans would be inclined to use "official" material produced by professional game designers than they would the material on athas.org or anywhere else for that matter. And that's not meant as a slight against athas.org or anyone else. There are a lot of DM's who won't use anything produced by 3rd-party sources regardless of who they are (i.e. Green Ronin, Malhavoc). If it isn't WotC, they simply pass over it.

And like you said "That's not meant as an insult or anything - I'm actually really curious to know" if you ever when to the DS board, athas.org site or the couple of DS sites that worth over the net. You would see the incredible job that as been done there.

Yeah, I've been to many of the fan DS sites. Some material is okay, some is not okay, AFAIAC. A lot of the stuff I've encountered has been fairly "fanboyish" and/or stale. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

Thanks.

Thank YOU.