D&D 5E Dungeon of the Mad Mage: Adventure or Setting Book?

[Endroren]

Is it possible Dungeon of the Mad Mage was mis-marketed as an adventure when it should have been sold as an Underdark setting book? We've been playing through and running it as a straight dungeon adventure and it just wasn't working - even bringing in the cool story hooks on each level. The battles just don't have a lot of meaning, and the rewards were too few. SO the last couple sessions we decided to ignore the "defeat the level, gain a level" advice the book gives and instead just played it like a sandbox setting, and it seems to work MUCH better that way. We've pulled all the focus off of the "explore the levels" like it encourages you to do, and wove our own stories around the denizens and their lives.

It almost seems like that was the real intent of the book and somehow it got lost in the "adventure" marketing approach. Anyone else have a similar experience?

 

[Umbran]

The major differences between "setting" and "adventure" are scope and level of detail.

So, an adventure is really just a smaller scope, high detail setting.

 

[Endroren]

The major differences between "setting" and "adventure" are scope and level of detail.

So, an adventure is really just a smaller scope, high detail setting.

Yeah - not wrong. Although an adventure typically has a story thread woven through it that you're following - even if loosely. So you could have an extremely large adventure which you'd call an adventure by the presence of that unifying thread. So I'm not sure scope is the only factor.

I guess I view settings as not being so dependent on that narrative/goal/quest. Instead they are a place where you stage adventures. I think DoMM is great for this, but if you "explore every level" it's not all that interesting. Just felt like they actually wanted this to be a setting where you could have adventures but that's not how it got sold. shrug Might just be me!

 

[Umbran]

Yeah - not wrong. Although an adventure typically has a story thread woven through it that you're following - even if loosely.

Story elements are setting elements. Basically in the way that "history" is really just a bunch of individual stories rolled up for reporting purposes.

 

[Mannahnin]

It does sound like they designed it more like an old-school dungeon, an adventure site with possible hooks but no specific overarching plot, and then tacked on the "milestone for exploring a level" idea.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Is it possible Dungeon of the Mad Mage was mis-marketed as an adventure when it should have been sold as an Underdark setting book? We've been playing through and running it as a straight dungeon adventure and it just wasn't working - even bringing in the cool story hooks on each level. The battles just don't have a lot of meaning, and the rewards were too few. SO the last couple sessions we decided to ignore the "defeat the level, gain a level" advice the book gives and instead just played it like a sandbox setting, and it seems to work MUCH better that way. We've pulled all the focus off of the "explore the levels" like it encourages you to do, and wove our own stories around the denizens and their lives.

It almost seems like that was the real intent of the book and somehow it got lost in the "adventure" marketing approach. Anyone else have a similar experience?

I think you are kind of correct. I had a similar experience, in that, after completing the Princes of the Apocalypse my player wanted to keep going to 20th level and I had Halaster trap them in Undermountain just 'cause.... I found a similar experience.

My feeling was that the levels are too big and a little under occupied for an old skool, kick in the door, kill and rob stuff but not big enough to develop a real theme or dynamic. In cases where there were factions or potential for something else the DM advice on the faction was often, well yes, you can ally with this faction but as soon as you do what they want they will betray you and try and kill you. Which is something I hate as it is hard enough to get the party to trust npcs (due to other DM experience) and petty betrayal is just petty.
I got bored of it before my players did but I did find a way to get them out of the dungeon and make a long term enemy in the process.
I have halted to campaign for a while now. I wanted the rest and had no idea where to go next but Fizban is giving me some ideas.

There were a couple of levels that were interesting but overall no. Use it to build on but there is not enough meat on it on its own.

 

[pukunui]

The old school lack of plot is actually the most appealing factor for my group. They are mostly older players who fondly remember playing 1e and 2e in their younger days, and this is bringing back happy memories for them.

I have incorporated the game show element from the DotMM Companion (DMs Guild) but it’s more of a background theme.

Halaster has challenged them to make it down to the bottom, and he gives them the occasional other challenge (like kill the drow on level 3), but for the most part they are free to explore.

I’ve also ditched the level-gating on the portals. We had fun with the PCs going from level 2 to level 4 and getting in over their heads a bit, for instance.

 

[Endroren]

The old school lack of plot is actually the most appealing factor for my group. They are mostly older players who fondly remember playing 1e and 2e in their younger days, and this is bringing back happy memories for them.

I have incorporated the game show element from the DotMM Companion (DMs Guild) but it’s more of a background theme.

Halaster has challenged them to make it down to the bottom, and he gives them the occasional other challenge (like kill the drow on level 3), but for the most part they are free to explore.

I’ve also ditched the level-gating on the portals. We had fun with the PCs going from level 2 to level 4 and getting in over their heads a bit, for instance.

Yeah...we ditched the level gating on portals as well. I love seeing the creative ways players survive encounters they can't just battle their way out of.

 

[pukunui]

My feeling was that the levels are too big and a little under occupied for an old skool, kick in the door, kill and rob stuff but not big enough to develop a real theme or dynamic.

I find it interesting you should say that the levels feel too big to be "old school" when the 5e levels are pretty much all a fraction of the size they were back in the old school days.

For instance, here's a map of the original level 1 with the 5e version superimposed on it:

Spoiler

 

[Paul Farquhar]

"One big empty dungeon" is something I would associate with old school design.

"several dungeons, small and focused" is modern.