Dungeon World Meets Blades in the Dark

[Campbell]

I'm not questioning your choices, I trust in your abilities.

It's just a bit surprising, because the most common houserule I've seen in Blades is somehow changing how recovering from harm works. People often find it too much debilitating and there's a running joke in BitD discord that every FitD game starts with modifying recovery rules.

I generally think that's a mistake. I like when Recovery feels like a real choice and something you have to suffer through. My experience with Beam Saber for instance was that recovering felt too automatic.

 

[Manbearcat]

FACTIONS

I'm not questioning your choices, I trust in your abilities.

It's just a bit surprising, because the most common houserule I've seen in Blades is somehow changing how recovering from harm works. People often find it too much debilitating and there's a running joke in BitD discord that every FitD game starts with modifying recovery rules.

Ah. I see.

Im not acquainted with that so much in the running of it or AW. However, @hawkeyefan did mention that one of the things he had to work on early in his GMing of Blades was too deep of a reliance on Harm as a Complication.

I’m very much in the opposite camp. Harm is definitely the last thing I go to as a Complication (I find Harm not particularly interesting much of the time). Unless it’s “you’ve got a sword coming to the gut, a Molotov cocktail at your feet, the glacier’s crevasse is snaking under your feet and the collapse is going to mean a horrific tumble”, Harm isn’t on my mind. And on a success with complications I’m often thinking about another way to change the fiction adversely besides reduced Harm (though I go with reduced Harm if that is where my brain is at).

That’s interesting to know (and a good example of me being ignorant to the greater culture)!

 

[Manbearcat]

FACTIONS

Here is where my brain is presently.

* Akin to My Life With Master, the table creates the early Tier (1), mid Tier (3), endgame Tier (6) Antagonist for the Companions. However, unlike MLwM, (a) this is an abstraction...an idea that will sharpen as play persists and (b) they’re diverse fantasy archetype had guys. This would also have some 4e inspiration as it divides the game into Heroic, Paragon, Epic. For instance:

Tier 1 - Corrupt Government
Tier 3 - Werewolf Cult
Tier 6 - Possessed Fire Giant

* Then about 7 Factions (which are going to be in The Town or outskirts) need to be codified with higher resolution (Tier, one sentence that captures M.O. and backstory, Quirk...play will sort out the rest). Probably 3 govt/infrastructure and 4 others. Like Blades, the process of building the Company would result in a Faction as an ally and a few as rivals at the beginning of play.

Example:

Captain Tarvel’s Toughs (Tier 2): The Captain lost his wife and child to The Bandit King. He can’t kill the King twice, so taking it out on the Toughs will have to do. Most say the Town’s Watch is better for it. Most.

 

[Manbearcat]

STRESS

Since the tropes/themes here will be less scoundrel and more hero, my inclination is to call Stress either Resolve, Mettle, or Grit. Courage or heroic tenacity in the face of high fantasy peril is what I’m after, and those 3 do the trick.


TRAUMA

I’m thinking Toll for this. Heroing ain’t easy.

And I’ll revise the list somewhat from the existing 8 Traumas, definitely including Distanced for characters with Divine patronage or for those who are committed to a ideal and the carrying out of it was too punishing.

 

[Manbearcat]

HEAT/WANTED LEVEL

When I initially was spitballing this in my head a long time ago, I was thinking Legacy, Renown, or Doom. It needs to be something where the Company's (and I may call this Companions...still not sure) actions have earned them notoriety and, in turn, that notoriety has earned them trouble.

However, @Fenris-77 brought up the idea of Legend. That is clearly better than all 3 because (a) it captures everything in 1 and (b) it flat out sounds cooler.

So, then.

Legend is acquired just like Heat is in Blades; at Payoff and during the Adventure in the form of Complications or Devil's Bargains (still thinking on what to call this...Destiny's Price?).

Wanted Level is possibly where Doom will go (Impending Doom).

So, for instance:

The Company/Companions are returning from an Adventure in the wild (vs in the town). They just met a horde of barbarian raiders that have been assailing caravans/hunters outside the city and who are trying to unit the other tribes for a siege on the Town. The parley was successful but complicated. The leader of the horde swore an oath to have his 2nd in command have the tribe move on if one of PCs could slay him in single combat. If the PC is slain then the other PCs will have to swear allegiance to the Barbaric Horde (and there are no takesy-backsies here...this would mean that the Companions (a) gain +3 Faction with the Horde - allies and (b) become -3 Faction with The Town).

The PC slays the Barbarian Warlord. In the process, they hit Impending Doom 2 due to the Legend accrued with 2 Legend rolling over. So their Entanglements (will likely sub Encounter for this) roll on the journey back (the journey is elided except for this) might look like this:

Impending Doom 2 = 2d6 rolled

Legend 0-3 Table (1st entry is wild, 2nd is town)

1-3 = Cohort/Gear/Travel Trouble or Salty Watchmen
4/5 = Hunted or Secrets of the City
6 = Favors of the Worst Kind

So lets say the 2d6 resulted in a 4; Hunted. Go to Entanglement Menu:

Hunted: A beast or bandits beset you on the way back. One PC takes 2 Harm (Saving Throw for 1 Harm) or play it out and see what happens.

---

REP (LEGEND), HEAT (DOOM), AND WANTED LEVEL/ENTANGLEMENTS/INCARCERATION

At the start of the playtest I'm going to begin soon, below will be the initial iteration of the configuration/interactions of all of the above:

* Rep is Legend (not Folklore).

* Heat is Doom (not Legend).

* There is no Wanted Level or Incarceration as per standard faire Blades, but there will be a Post-Adventure Entanglement rolled. The procedure and thinking on this is below:

1) Legend and Doom fit on the same 12 point track; Legend from left to right and Doom from right to left. Like orthodox Blades, these will be accrued primarily due to Adventures (but Entanglements will intersect here as well).

2) Getting your Legend meter filled to 12 + requisite Coin will be the requirement for Tiering up (like Blades).

3) Doom will obviously be an obstacle to that (occupying the meter from the opposite direction).

4) Unlike Blades, there will be no Downtime Activity to Reduce Doom. Doom will only be reduced by a special Doom Adventure that targets a Menace (these are Fronts). These will not earn Doom. They will earn reduced Legend which is exchanged for Doom reduction at an exchange rate of 2:1 (the same exchange rate of liquidating Stash to produce tangible Coin in Blades).

So, for instance, the Adventure earns 2 Legend + 1 per Tier above Company. Tier 2 Menace is Adventured against. 4 Legend is earned. 4 or 2 of that can be exchanged for Doom reduction or 2 Legend + 1 Doom Reduction or 0 Legend + 2 Doom Reduction.

Coin gained is as normal.

5) The procedure for Post Adventure Entanglements will work like this:

* A Fortune Roll is made to determine which PC will have a targeted thematic Entanglment which takes place either on the journey back (if Adventure is in the Wild) or in the Town (if Adventure is in the Town).

* The GM will pick one of the PC's Bonds or their Alignment (one that has not been interacted with in this game session) to frame a conflict around.

* The GM will reference the Company's present Doom to determine the level of Menace faced.

0 Doom = Tier + 0 Menace
1-3 Doom = Tier + 1 Menace
4+ Doom = Tier + 2 Menace

* The conflict will either be elided (with a decision-point/cost paid) or it can be played out (perhaps the player doesn't want to make that decision-point or doesn't want to pay that cost and feels they can pay a lesser/different cost in the playing out of the scene); player's choice.

 

[Manbearcat]

BLUECOATS

This is where my mind is at presently..."the truth is...there are no Bluecoats."

Like Impending Doom above, I'm thinking of making the Bluecoats merely be a manifestation of Doom.

When required by the system, Doom will manifest as an obstacle/conflict that is Company/Companions Tier +2 (or Tier 6 when the PCs are Tier 5 or 6). So at the beginning of the game, when they're Tier 0, a Tier 2 Faction or a Magnitude 2 Event/Monster or a Magnitude 1 Monster w/ increased Scale (Magnitude 1 monsters at * 2 the number of PCs) would give them a problem.

 

[Fenris-77]

I have some thoughts about Legend and how it could be used in the game to drive the fiction. First, and this is a bit of an aside, the party in this hack isn't going to have the kind of narrative direction that a Blades gang does based on the gang's type (Assassins, Grifters etc). My thought there was to build some of that direction into the playbooks themselves. Perhaps a system where the party itself chooses what kind of approach might generate XP. Alternatively, this could be represented by an accretion of motivations from the playbooks. So each playbook could have personal XP triggers (call them inner triggers) as well as party XP triggers, so the party gains XP based on the range of characters that make it up and their collected outward motivations.

This notion that the party 'identity' is a collection of character-based ideas is what's leads me more specifically to Legend and how to approach it. Perhaps it would work to have playbook specific options that replace incarceration, which is the big problem related to Heat. So when Legend reaches a certain point, when the party has drawn enough of the gods' attention, or whomever, the characters in the party determine the nature of threat or complication that appears. I'm calling this Legendary Complications below, but there must be a cooler term than that. Perhaps Challenges, IDK.

There are a ton of ways this could be handled, but tying it directly to the characters has one immediate benefit that I really like. If you tie the complication directly to one character, perhaps whichever character has the highest current doom, you can produce consequences that are really personal not just for that character, but also for the party. Let's say, for instance, that it's the Cleric who has the highest Doom when the party's legend hits that tier. The Cleric playbook contains Cleric specific Legend consequences or threats, which could (and probably should) be tied not only to the playbook, but also to some character specific choices about background or whatever. This gives the Cleric a real spotlight moment and I think really drives home the idea that the growing legend has personal consequences. Let's be general and say that these Legendary problems will involve significant threats, threats at the high end of what the party can deal with. It might be appropriate to also offer some significant benefit for overcoming them. So each playbook could have, along with Legendary problems, also have a selection of abilities/gear/whatever that are only gained through those Legendary complications.

Stepping back to mechanics for a second. lets say we call the successful resolution of a Legendary complication a 'Legendary Deed'. This would provide a mechanic to spread that spotlight around, in that Legendary complications could be assigned based on highest current doom paired with lowest current Deeds. Essentially every party member gets a kick at the can before anyone gets a second one. (I realize that this doesn't account for failed legendary complications, but I hadn't figured that bit out yet).

Stepping back yet another level, this would mean the game has two core axis of conflict. First are the conflicts the party chooses to engage in, both in terms of adventure but also the faction game. Second would be their growing Legend, which is trouble that comes to find them. If the second is tied to previous party actions and the specific characters I think this does a good job modelling the actions have consequences idea at the level of setting.

 

[Manbearcat]

SCORES

Not outlined in the lead post, but I wanted to touch on my thoughts on this right quick. Obviously (as mentioned prior), Adventure will replace Score. Types as below:


Assault - Attack a hideout or enemy force head on. Detail: The point of attack.

Delve - Spelunk or explore a mysterious site. Detail: The legend (physical map to locale and its story).

Escort - A caravan of merchants from major trade hubs or a vulnerable family out of danger. Detail: The route & means.

Range - Set out into the wild to map its uncharted depths. Detail: Cartographer's call.

Ritual - Adjure or bind a demon, engage a celestial power, connect or disconnect worlds. Detail: The supernatural method.

Slay - A legendary monster. Detail: The lair.

Social - Negotiate, bargain, persuade, or threaten. Detail: The social connection.

Solve - Find a safe passage from here to there, track down a lost site, resolve a mystery. Detail: What needs finding.

Stealth - Trespass unseen. Detail: The point of infiltration.

 

[Manbearcat]

I have some thoughts about Legend and how it could be used in the game to drive the fiction. First, and this is a bit of an aside, the party in this hack isn't going to have the kind of narrative direction that a Blades gang does based on the gang's type (Assassins, Grifters etc). My thought there was to build some of that direction into the playbooks themselves. Perhaps a system where the party itself chooses what kind of approach might generate XP. Alternatively, this could be represented by an accretion of motivations from the playbooks. So each playbook could have personal XP triggers (call them inner triggers) as well as party XP triggers, so the party gains XP based on the range of characters that make it up and their collected outward motivations.

This notion that the party 'identity' is a collection of character-based ideas is what's leads me more specifically to Legend and how to approach it. Perhaps it would work to have playbook specific options that replace incarceration, which is the big problem related to Heat. So when Legend reaches a certain point, when the party has drawn enough of the gods' attention, or whomever, the characters in the party determine the nature of threat or complication that appears. I'm calling this Legendary Complications below, but there must be a cooler term than that. Perhaps Challenges, IDK.

There are a ton of ways this could be handled, but tying it directly to the characters has one immediate benefit that I really like. If you tie the complication directly to one character, perhaps whichever character has the highest current doom, you can produce consequences that are really personal not just for that character, but also for the party. Let's say, for instance, that it's the Cleric who has the highest Doom when the party's legend hits that tier. The Cleric playbook contains Cleric specific Legend consequences or threats, which could (and probably should) be tied not only to the playbook, but also to some character specific choices about background or whatever. This gives the Cleric a real spotlight moment and I think really drives home the idea that the growing legend has personal consequences. Let's be general and say that these Legendary problems will involve significant threats, threats at the high end of what the party can deal with. It might be appropriate to also offer some significant benefit for overcoming them. So each playbook could have, along with Legendary problems, also have a selection of abilities/gear/whatever that are only gained through those Legendary complications.

Stepping back to mechanics for a second. lets say we call the successful resolution of a Legendary complication a 'Legendary Deed'. This would provide a mechanic to spread that spotlight around, in that Legendary complications could be assigned based on highest current doom paired with lowest current Deeds. Essentially every party member gets a kick at the can before anyone gets a second one. (I realize that this doesn't account for failed legendary complications, but I hadn't figured that bit out yet).

Stepping back yet another level, this would mean the game has two core axis of conflict. First are the conflicts the party chooses to engage in, both in terms of adventure but also the faction game. Second would be their growing Legend, which is trouble that comes to find them. If the second is tied to previous party actions and the specific characters I think this does a good job modelling the actions have consequences idea at the level of setting.

Let me just say that I LOVE all of this.

This is really great stuff.

This feels like actuating 4e's Character Themes, Paragon Paths, and Epic Destinies mechanically. I love this idea.

I'll have to think more on how to make Legend a discrete, character thing. Its probably easily enough pulled off via each PC having their own Legend and Impending Doom Tracker. Then the question is, how is it determined which Tracker gets rolled post-Adventure during the Entanglement (Encounter?) phase?

I'll have to think more on this, but this is really great stuff.

I also love the idea of diversity of archetype/theme being incentivized via the xp model.

Really great stuff. Thanks @Fenris-77 . These are the sorts of contributions I'm looking for.

 

[Fenris-77]

I was still considering Legend above to be a party thing, but assuming at the same time that each character is a part of that Legend and so, functionally, has Legend equal to the party total. You could certainly make it exclusively discrete I suppose, but I kind of like the idea that the Legend is a group thing as well. There are a ton of ways that could be connected to each character though. I think it will take some iteration and maybe playtest to really get a feel for it.

Maybe each character has a Legend tracker, and those collectively pool into into a party Legend tracker? If you up the scale of the party tracker or differentiate it somehow that could work. You could also tie trauma (Toll) to Legend if there's a discrete character tracker. There's also an opportunity to make Toll somewhat discrete by playbook as well. Perhaps a base number of shared Tolls, plus some playbook specific ones, an idea which could interface with playbook specific abilities and whatnot. The cost of hero-ing hits different characters differently.