Dungeon World Meets Blades in the Dark

[Manbearcat]

I would say go with one of the two remaining classic core classes, cleric or thief. I feel like that’d help you cover a bit more ground as far as playbooks go.

Although I’m interested in the idea of an Arcane Duelist and how it works as a kind of hybrid/dual class playbook. Would it just have its own set of Starting Abilities and then choose from the Fighter and Wizard Advancement Abilities? Or would you come up with a specific list of Advancements for the Arcane Duelist playbook?

And more generally, are Veteran Advances still a thing in this game? Can any character take an Advance from any playbook as in Blades, or will you restrict that in some way?

Here is the Dungeon World Arcane Duelist. Basically an Elven Bladesinger type deal. It would be that sort of setup.

Yes on Veteran Advances.

The obvious playbooks would whatever the equivalents of Thief or Cleric. If the Cleric is going to have healing magic, especially if it's going to be able to clear stress, that's the one I'd try.

Oh, goodness, no. Clearing stress would be a terrible mechanic! IMO, of course.

I was thinking Cleric, Rogue, or Bard.

What do you guys think of Bard (it would cover a lot of different mechanics so that is why I find it intriguing to conceive it and test it).

Right now, my idea for Healing is basically just like the Healing Potion that I put under Fighter:

Allow a Resistance Roll w/ +1D. However, like the Wizard, I'm anticipating putting some kind of Drawback on Divine Prayers. My initial thought is all healing/restorative spells have Conspicuous +1 Doom for using it on an Adventure/Journey because it attracts the attention of Death (because that is a soul that Death could be culling). All other spells have Unreliable and their deployment will be dependent upon Quality derived from an Attune roll that happens during Communion/Preparation (establishing the connection to the God/dess at the moment of prayer). Basically the general Crafting rules: Then there would be a base class feature that gives you +1 Quality for spells prayed for during Communion. Then there would be an additional feature you could invest into that gives you +1d Attune when appealing to your God/dess or to another supernatural entity/power. At every Communion/Prepare phase, they could spend +1/2 Coin in sacrifice to appeal to their God/dess (burning incense and other ritualistic material component investment). Like Crafting, this would net them +1 Quality per Coin sacrificed. Unlike Crafting, this would span ALL of their spells appealed for (not the individual item like in Crafting).

So for instance, a Cleric at Company Level 0 with both of those Features and investing 1 Coin during Communion:

1) 3d6 Fortune Roll for each Spell you're appealing your supernatural Patron for: 2, 4, 5.

2) 5 = Tier +0 Quality but +1 Quality due to feature

3) +1 Quality for Coin spent.

4) = 2d6 Fortune Roll for all Prayers/Spells.

And their Holy Symbols will interact with this somehow (perhaps giving them +1 Q for their Fortune Rolls...TBD).

EDIT - I'm also thinking about having the Cleric pick one target in the encounter who is briefly stupefied, enamored, or fearful as a byproduct of the divine manifestation (like what happens when a Ghost manifests in Blades) of a Prayer. So something advantageous would always happen.

---

So, effectively, the Cleric model will be working off of a "how did your God/dess accept your prayer/offerings?.." and a Coin/Doom minigame while the Wizard's game will be a "oh crap, how will the world potentially be negatively affected by my twisting and tugging the arcane fabric of the multiverse..." Complication and Stress minigame.


At least, that is what is in my head right now. I won't know what that all looks like for sure until I've put it together. Might be crap and have to be scrapped entirely, but right now that feels thematically appropriate and tactically interesting/diverse from Wizards.

EDIT * 2

Part of me is thinking about going with only 1 Holy Warrior archetype for this game. Something that leans Paladin mostly but could have more spellcasting capability. I’ve never been keen on the divide between those two classes and healing magic that gets too powerful can be an issue.

 

[Ovinomancer]

There are a lot of moving parts here that create a holistic picture of how I'm envisioning this emerging. Check out my post #144 to hawkeye for reference.

I'm seeing Casting Spells like a Leech with a lot of powerful grenades with the Volatile Drawback. Like a Leech, they would have Special Armor to deal with 2 * Spell deployment complications (the only Leech I've run that was a grenade lobbing fiend took Fortitude...I expect a lot of Wizards would take Warded earlier for the same reason). Further, like a Leech, having Golems/Zombies (like the Leech can make constructs) will help them not be entirely reliant upon Spells. However, unlike the Leech, this iteration of a Wizard would have:

a) The ability to Push themselves and not just remove Volatile but also get Push effects.

Okay, if I Push for any reason, I also get to remove Volatile?

b) Spellcasting implements that would buff their ability to Resist Volatile (+1d).

This is costing stress, just in a more random way. I don't effectively see the difference, here, between Pushing at 2 stress to remove a volatile and Resisting at 0-5 stress to remove volatile. It's going to the same pool via different mechanics, and, ultimately, stress loss puts pressure on downtime activities due to the need to recover stress (which Wizards, I think, will be burning faster).

c) Their Spell Loadout wouldn't be reliant upon and restricted by Bandlier boxes. They could continuously cast so long as they don't loose the spell.

Which is up to the GM as for how they decide the automatic consequence of a non-Pushed spell, right? That's hardly where I want to be in skillfully risking my resources.

Finally, as I mentioned in that #144 post, personally, just like I don't rely a lot upon Harm (new and interesting obstacles or the escalation of the situation is a lot more interesting to me) as Complications (unless Harm is profoundly more sensical in the situation than any other Complication), "Losing the Spell" as the Volatile Complication would be my last resort. So a lot of Wizards are just going to let those Complications pile on (like Wizards in my Dungeon World games do...they almost always opt for "Danger" as their complication rather than "Losing the Spell" or -1 ongoing to cast a spell...the split is probably 80/15/5 %).

I mean...I could be wrong (and a playtest will bear that out), but I think there are a lot of tools here to create interesting decision-points and mitigate the Stress fallout without entering a Stress > DTA Death Spiral.

I'll let you know what it looks like once I run it and if I have to tweak it. Just not seeing the spiral you're seeing at this point.

I get that you might run it differently, but the wording says Volatile Consequence or losing the spell occurs regardless of the result on the casting! If these are normal complications from die results (4-5 or 1-3) then I don't see why they need to be spelled out. They read, to me, as additional consequences for using Magics. Which, to me, seems to put a lot of pressure to Push if the Wizard wants to do the magic stuff.

As I see it, the Wizard has the following choice trees -- the usual position/effect negotiation occurs (this is all that's really needed to drive complication, in my opinion). After that, ie, after I've really had the question of "do you want to Push to get more effect or another die/take a Devil's Bargain for the same" I now have the question of "even if you succeed, there will be a consequence, unless you Push to remove it or you plan to Resist to do so (which doesn't remove a consequence, it lowers it's impact). The Wizard player, in using their core cool thing, has this secondary choice which is really "there's an automatic consequence to your cool thing, are you going to take it, in addition to whatever the dice create, or are you going to spend Stress to negate it." I don't think this is an interesting decision point, and it's just extra on top of the normal, for doing what a Wizard should be doing -- using magic to solve problems.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Here is the Dungeon World Arcane Duelist. Basically an Elven Bladesinger type deal. It would be that sort of setup.

Yes on Veteran Advances.

Gotcha. In case it wasn't already abundantly clear, my experience with Dungeon World is pretty minimal. I've played a few times and that's it, so I don't know all the playbooks and abilities as I do with Blades.

I was thinking Cleric, Rogue, or Bard.

What do you guys think of Bard (it would cover a lot of different mechanics so that is why I find it intriguing to conceive it and test it).

Since you've addressed healing, I think you can skip Cleric for now. If you weren't going to do a Rogue or Cleric, Bard would have been my next suggestion, followed by Paladin.

Allow a Resistance Roll w/ +1D. However, like the Wizard, I'm anticipating putting some kind of Drawback on Divine Prayers. My initial thought is all healing/restorative spells have Conspicuous +1 Doom for using it on an Adventure/Journey because it attracts the attention of Death (because that is a soul that Death could be culling). All other spells have Unreliable and their deployment will be dependent upon Quality derived from an Attune roll that happens during Communion/Preparation (establishing the connection to the God/dess at the moment of prayer). Basically the general Crafting rules: Then there would be a base class feature that gives you +1 Quality for spells prayed for during Communion. Then there would be an additional feature you could invest into that gives you +1d Attune when appealing to your God/dess or to another supernatural entity/power. At every Communion/Prepare phase, they could spend +1/2 Coin in sacrifice to appeal to their God/dess (burning incense and other ritualistic material component investment). Like Crafting, this would net them +1 Quality per Coin sacrificed. Unlike Crafting, this would span ALL of their spells appealed for (not the individual item like in Crafting).

So this would essentially allow a Resistance Roll with +1d after the fact to reduce Harm? Would a use be limited to one specific instance of Harm, or would it work like a Recovery Roll and affect all instances of Harm? Or maybe it allows a Resistance Roll for each instance of Harm that a player might like to try and reduce?

I like the idea that a person can only receive so much healing magic, and so connecting that to Stress seems like an interesting idea. My only concern would be this as another toll on the Stress resource. However, given that Harm is only one consequence instead of the only consequence, perhaps that's perfectly fine? I imagine that will reveal itself in playtesting.

Overall, it seems to jibe with what you've set up for magic, and I think having a cost when magic is used is a good idea. May need a bit of tweaking if you find any issues once you actually playtest it, but it seems sound.

 

[hawkeyefan]

This is costing stress, just in a more random way. I don't effectively see the difference, here, between Pushing at 2 stress to remove a volatile and Resisting at 0-5 stress to remove volatile. It's going to the same pool via different mechanics, and, ultimately, stress loss puts pressure on downtime activities due to the need to recover stress (which Wizards, I think, will be burning faster).

Maybe a Standard Ability such as "Cantrip" could be added to the playbook which gives the Wizard an option of something cool to do without the cost of Stress or the Volatile condition?

Just a thought. I think i'd need to see this all in play to know if @Ovinomancer's stated concerns are as severe as he worries, but I do see the potential for the Wizard to quickly use up Stress to cast their spells, and then not being able to cast again, or use Stress for other things, like Resistance Rolls and the like.

 

[Manbearcat]

Okay, if I Push for any reason, I also get to remove Volatile?

This is costing stress, just in a more random way. I don't effectively see the difference, here, between Pushing at 2 stress to remove a volatile and Resisting at 0-5 stress to remove volatile. It's going to the same pool via different mechanics, and, ultimately, stress loss puts pressure on downtime activities due to the need to recover stress (which Wizards, I think, will be burning faster).

Which is up to the GM as for how they decide the automatic consequence of a non-Pushed spell, right? That's hardly where I want to be in skillfully risking my resources.

I get that you might run it differently, but the wording says Volatile Consequence or losing the spell occurs regardless of the result on the casting! If these are normal complications from die results (4-5 or 1-3) then I don't see why they need to be spelled out. They read, to me, as additional consequences for using Magics. Which, to me, seems to put a lot of pressure to Push if the Wizard wants to do the magic stuff.

As I see it, the Wizard has the following choice trees -- the usual position/effect negotiation occurs (this is all that's really needed to drive complication, in my opinion). After that, ie, after I've really had the question of "do you want to Push to get more effect or another die/take a Devil's Bargain for the same" I now have the question of "even if you succeed, there will be a consequence, unless you Push to remove it or you plan to Resist to do so (which doesn't remove a consequence, it lowers it's impact). The Wizard player, in using their core cool thing, has this secondary choice which is really "there's an automatic consequence to your cool thing, are you going to take it, in addition to whatever the dice create, or are you going to spend Stress to negate it." I don't think this is an interesting decision point, and it's just extra on top of the normal, for doing what a Wizard should be doing -- using magic to solve problems.

Good stuff.

Give me a little while and I'll get a good, meaty example of a Wizard play loop from Danger > Decision-Point > Action Roll > Resolution up. That should better clarify stuff.

 

[Manbearcat]

Gotcha. In case it wasn't already abundantly clear, my experience with Dungeon World is pretty minimal. I've played a few times and that's it, so I don't know all the playbooks and abilities as I do with Blades.

No worries!

Since you've addressed healing, I think you can skip Cleric for now. If you weren't going to do a Rogue or Cleric, Bard would have been my next suggestion, followed by Paladin.

Yeah. I think, at this point, I'm likely going to do "Holy Warrior" (which leans heavily Paladin) or Bard as the 3rd playbook.

So this would essentially allow a Resistance Roll with +1d after the fact to reduce Harm? Would a use be limited to one specific instance of Harm, or would it work like a Recovery Roll and affect all instances of Harm? Or maybe it allows a Resistance Roll for each instance of Harm that a player might like to try and reduce?

My initial orientation is you would tie this to Effect. You can try to decrease one instance of Harm by 2 or maybe 2 by 1 or some such. I'd have to think on it further.

I like the idea that a person can only receive so much healing magic, and so connecting that to Stress seems like an interesting idea. My only concern would be this as another toll on the Stress resource. However, given that Harm is only one consequence instead of the only consequence, perhaps that's perfectly fine? I imagine that will reveal itself in playtesting.

Overall, it seems to jibe with what you've set up for magic, and I think having a cost when magic is used is a good idea. May need a bit of tweaking if you find any issues once you actually playtest it, but it seems sound.

Yup!

 

[Manbearcat]

Maybe a Standard Ability such as "Cantrip" could be added to the playbook which gives the Wizard an option of something cool to do without the cost of Stress or the Volatile condition?

Just a thought. I think i'd need to see this all in play to know if @Ovinomancer's stated concerns are as severe as he worries, but I do see the potential for the Wizard to quickly use up Stress to cast their spells, and then not being able to cast again, or use Stress for other things, like Resistance Rolls and the like.

It’s a good thought.

Cantrip could be the base ability for the class with Ritualist as an Advances Abilty.

Anyway, I’ll get up a play loop afterwhile.

 

[Manbearcat]

Alright.

GM: You're cornered by 3 Orcs. These guys are physically tough (Toughs in this game or Thugs in Blades) with a Special Armor box against physical attacks.

Wizard: Their armor and toughness won't do jack against fire. I’m going to cast my Burning Hands Spell. It has Scale 1 so it should get all 3 of them. I want to burn these guys to a crisp. If I push to Great Effect, that means all 3 are toast on a 6, right?

GM: That's right. This will be Desperate Position though. This is an extremely dangerous situation you're in.

Rogue: We need those 3 Orcs dead. I'm Flashing Back to a few minutes ago. This is a power play we've pulled off plenty of times. I nodded to the wizard and subtly kicked over one of the kegs so the floor around the Orcs is covered in spirits. The Wizard has carefully led these Orcs right into our trap.

I eat 1 Stress and the Wizard gets Great Effect?

GM: Awesome. Sounds great.

Wizard: Alright, I’ve got 4 Stress and I've used 1 of my Special Armor boxes so I have one free. Do I Push for that extra dice and to resist Volatile? Do I spend that remaining Special Armor? Do I just not push and resist because I'm casting Burning Hands through my Staff (that will give me 4d on the Resistance Roll). Hmmmm...You know what. I need these guys dead. I want that extra dice. +1 Stress to Push for 1d and remove Volatile. Marking 1 xp under Spirit for Desperate Position.

4, 3, 4

GM: Alright...reduced effect. 2 of them are fricasseed and down for the count. The last one is scorched horribly (2 harm), on fire and screaming wildly, flaying his arms blindly as they stagger toward you for an infernal hug! You're going to have to do something about this right now!

Rogue: I was just on the bar so I'm right nearby. After I stabbed that orc, kicked him in the face and flipped over him, I'm clean of bad guys. I set the Wizard up so I knew this whole thing was going down. Do I have time to launch a handful of throwing knives from my bandolier and finish that orc off before the fiery embrace with my Wizard friend?!

GM: You're easily in Near range but its going to be tight because this is all happening lightning fast and your tangle with the orc was finishing at the same time. After your front flip, you rise from your crouch and your window is tiny to make this happen! Desperate/Standard.

---

That is pretty much how I see this going down in play.

 

[Manbearcat]

Thinking of an alteration:

Fine Wand, Orb, Rod, or Staff (when you use it to channel a spell and resist the Volatile complication, take +1 to resistance rolls) - 1 Load - * *

The * are Stress boxes for the implement (so 2). So when the Wizard resists with the implement, the first 2 Stress taken goes to the implement. Once those two boxes are filled up, the implement is rendered innert (“Stressed Out”) for the rest of the Adventure.

 

[Manbearcat]

THE BARD

Starting Actions: Consort * 2, Illuminate * 1


Dangerous Friends/Allies:

Leheth "the brush" - Artist and debauch extraordinaire
Pascal - Famous street-magician, pick-pocket, and fence, long-retired...except the fence part
Jua Xei - Swordmaster, mountebank, former lover...never in one place for long
"Lovelyhoof" - Satyr model, tailor, designer with a penchant for bedazzled footwear
Aulorora - Half-elven former lover and collector of fine things (including lovers)
Ryzmaka "the fickle" - Elder Copper Dragon who changes lairs, allegiances, moods at the drop of a hat


Starting Abilities:

Arcane Art: When you weave honeyed words or a performance into a basic spell, choose an ally, choose an effect, and take +1d:

• Their mind is freed from an enchantment.
• They take +1d to a Resistance Roll.
• The leader of a Group Action takes 1 less Stress.
• You share the Stress Cost for Pushing.

It Goes to Eleven: Take +1 Stress and your honeyed words and performances weaved into a basic spell have increased Potency or Scale (your choice).

All the Right Friends in All the Right Places: Take +1d when you Gather Information and when you Acquire Asset (Cohort), they have Scale or Quality +1 (your choice).


Advancement Abilities:

Charming and Open: When you speak frankly with someone, you can ask their player a question from the list below. They must answer it truthfully, and you and your Company gains Potency when acting on the answer. Then they may ask you a question from the list (which you must answer truthfully).

• Whom do you serve?
• What do you wish I would do?
• How can I get you to?
• What are you really feeling right now?
• What do you most desire?

(Wo)man of Action: Whenever you do something particularly daring or bold with Desperate Position, take +1d Swashbuckle or Skirmish. There is always a chandelier, rope, window, cart, easily-spooked herd of livestock, or
similar unusual environmental hazard handy in any situation in which it would be convenient for you and remotely plausible.

Drop...Your...Sword: When you seek to frighten, charm or impress someone through flamboyance, tall-tale, or devil-may-care, you get +1d to your roll. If a Tug-of-War Clock is involved, tick the Clock one Wedge better in your direction.

Life of the Party: When you cause a scene or distraction, all attention will be on you...no questions asked.

Charm Greases Palms Better than Coin: When a member of your group would spend coin or legend on a downtime action to recover or acquire an asset, you can choose to cover their cost by paying 1 stress. Each time you use this ability during a downtime phase, the cost increases by 1.

The first time costs 1 stress, the second 2, the third 3, and so on.

Battle of Ballads: When you one-up or enthrall someone with story, take +1d. If a Tug-of-War Clock is involved, tick the Clock one Wedge better in your direction.

Parasocial Relations: You have 2 Special Armor. You may expend your special armor to push yourself or to introduce an NPC that backs your play or saves your bacon from a social or status-based consequence when you engage in showmanship, bravado, or misdirection.

Vicious Cacophony: Your Arcane Art list increases to include they take +1 Effect when harming an enemy.

In the Nick of Time: You have an extra box of Adventuring Gear and your Flashbacks cost 1 less Stress (elaborate goes to 1 and complex goes to 0).

Lay Down Your Burdens: Your songs lighten the Load of your Allies. All allies increase their Light Load by 1, their Normal Load by 2, and their Heavy Load by 1.

​

Unique Equipment:

Fine Rapier or Saber - 1 Load
Fine Instrument (when used to resist a social complication, take +1d to resistance rolls) - 1 Load
Duelist's Leather Armor - 1 Load
Bag of Books; Ballads and Histories - 1 Load
Bandolier of Throwing Knives (Near) - 1 Load - * * * (Ammo)
Ostentatious Hat, Coat, Belt - 0 Load
Trance Powder (Quality 1/* *) - A glittering blue powder. Induces a pleasant hypnotic trance when inhaled - 0 Load
Little Black Book - 0 Load
(1 Coin) Adventuring Gear (crowbar, ropes/pitons/chalk/harness/clips, torches, winter cloak) - 2 Load * * (Uses)
(1 Coin) Camp Supplies - 2 Load * * * (Uses)