D&D (2024) Dungeons and Dragons future? Ray Winninger gives a nod to Mike Shea's proposed changes.

[dave2008]

Again, if you can and often do do it yourself, why drop $200 on a set of barely changed books?

Because though I am a decent artist - I am not that good (nor do I have the time). Organization and errata and small tweaks are nice two. That is worth spending some money to me. How much is TBD in 2 years.

And even if it was completely changed, it still wouldn't have the changes I want (and they may change things I don't want). So there is always an amount of doing it yourself. At this point we have modified 5e pretty much to make the game perfect for us, so I don't want much change.

Also, where are you getting $200 from?

 

[dave2008]

If you can take it away, then it shouldn't be intended that you should have it all the time. Pick a side, WotC.

Curious, why do you think it is intended to be used all the time. Sneak Attack, IIRC, has always been situational.

EDIT: I do like fence straddling in game design myself, but I get why it frustrates some

 

[overgeeked]

My players chose what to do every round of every combat or social encounter. Those are the choices we care about. I realize that is not enough for some, but that is what I was talking about. Choices in game, not so much during character creation. Of course Tasha's did add some additional options beyond 4th for all classes IIRC, so maybe they will expand on that in the '24 edition for you.

There was a great thread over on RPG.net about combat that talked about the differences between games, activities, puzzles, and how the fun of a thing diminishes once it's solved. Here's the link. The longer an edition lasts, the more "solved" it becomes. There are clear winners and losers in regards to: character design choices (at one end intentionally nerfing your stats for character, at the other end pure power gaming), combat (there are optimal strategies in just about every situation), etc. Importantly, some are restricted to edition, but others are not.

There's a certain joy to finding neat interactions in the rules, but that diminishes over time as there are fewer to discover. This is limited to edition. With each new edition the hunt begins again. But, as the edition wears on, these are found, talked about, spread around, so the excitement dies down eventually. Only to be renewed with each new edition.

There's a certain joy to finding strategies to combat, but that diminishes over time as there are fewer to discover. Over time combat becomes completely solved as there aren't really any new things going on. No matter how much flair you give a fight or what objective you put in or what terrain you use, etc...it all comes down to a few factors that are repeated endlessly. New editions only change one or two inputs slightly. PC abilities and monster stats. But combat is still a long-since solved equation.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It depends how the implement them whether or not the default state is optional (like multiclassing, feats, and magic items) or not. They could be, but I think they are making the change.

However, I as asking because it seemed like you were saying because of some future product, that you don't have to buy, might include these features that means those features are not optional now. They are 100% optional now.

Personally, anything that doesn't change how the game is played is pretty optional IMO. Whether or not characters even has a +2 to one stat and +1 to another has little impact on the game IMO. So yes, it is very much optional to me.

As was said above, they are officially optional, but expected as standard, like feats and multiclassing. I am using both definitions, because both apply.

 

[OB1]

Yes, exactly. All I was trying to say when this tangent started is that the designers meant for the game to work a particular way, so they should have designed the game to explicitly work that way from the start. Not hide their intent behind layers of rules and rules interactions. If they wanted the rogue to always get sneak attack (which they've said they did), then the game should have been explicitly designed that way from the start, not patched later to make it work that way. That's all.

I think the original intent was to have the rogue always attacking an enemy who's engaged with an ally to get sneak attack, with various options to sometimes get sneak attack when not doing that. Those additional methods always come with some sort of cost (subclass choice, risk of hide not working, 0 movement for the turn, etc). Stead Aim is just one more option of many.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

New art.

But anyone playing now isn't the target audience, new players are.

New art, new race write ups (biggest change we will see), cleaned up language in places that have frustrated a large enough percentage of players, and probably some minor quality of life upgrades to a few classes.

I honest to goodness have looked over that post several times, and do not see that there.

Part of it is in the post before that that you also quoted, but that recognition is then referenced in the post in question. At no point was it reasonable to try to explain editions in publishing to me.

At any rate, they will do what they do: whether they acknowledge it as a new Edition or not is immaterial.

It won’t be immaterial to the continued growth of the game.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

As was said above, they are officially optional, but expected as standard, like feats and multiclassing. I am using both definitions, because both apply.

They are optional. Full stop.

 

[Micah Sweet]

My players chose what to do every round of every combat or social encounter. Those are the choices we care about. I realize that is not enough for some, but that is what I was talking about. Choices in game, not so much during character creation. Of course Tasha's did add some additional options beyond 4th for all classes IIRC, so maybe they will expand on that in the '24 edition for you.

I don't really care much what they do in the 2024 books personally,as I have migrated to Level Up as a DM, and as a player I'll adapt however the DM wants.

I understand you. Having more choices in creation throughout the career of the PC matters to me though, and Level Up does that.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Because though I am a decent artist - I am not that good (nor do I have the time). Organization and errata and small tweaks are nice two. That is worth spending some money to me. How much is TBD in 2 years.

And even if it was completely changed, it still wouldn't have the changes I want (and they may change things I don't want). So there is always an amount of doing it yourself. At this point we have modified 5e pretty much to make the game perfect for us, so I don't want much change.

Also, where are you getting $200 from?

Assuming roughly $60-70 per book in 2024 for three core books.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Curious, why do you think it is intended to be used all the time. Sneak Attack, IIRC, has always been situational.

EDIT: I do like fence straddling in game design myself, but I get why it frustrates some

Because everyone keeps telling me Perkins said so straight out in some social media post or whatever.