WotC Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

[Cadence]

"I'm a member of the dominant group, and so I don't really think about how other people are treated or how my actions impact them," racism.

In this case, using actual academic texts of the time, and asking some players from the non-dominant group to take a look, feels like they did think about it and tried not to be naughty word. Exceeding the standards and expectations of the time doesn't redeem the work as being valuable for use today, but feels like it's a thing for judging the morality of the authors.

I wonder if any generation going back would find many folks who could withstand questioning on their views of the issues of the present. How many of us going back 20-30 years ago ourselves would give the right answers on the entire range of topics related to LGBTQ equality, privilege, policing, and cultural appropriation? In another 20-30 years how many of us right now will be judged down for not fighting hard for the environment (you actually traveled to cons by fossil fueled powered vehicles every year!?!?) or not defending the rights of some of the more intelligent non-human animals?

 

[Myrdin Potter]

On every older WoTC product in the DMS Guild right now:

"We recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website, does not reflect the values of the Dungeon & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end."

 

[Dire Bare]

Interesting article on why "Avatar: The Last Airbender" works as Asian-inspired fantasy written by white guys . . . . a focus on history rather than stereotypes. And before critiquing, please actually READ the article and note that the author is Asian.

Some of my thoughts after reading: "Avatar" is story-focused, with excellent world-building, where D&D sourcebooks, like OA (1E), tend to focus on the world-building (based on stereotypes), leaving the story-telling to the players. Part of the nature of D&D at the time, perhaps even now, but something to keep in mind for those wishing to create some Asian-inspired fantasy in the D&D space.

 

[JEB]

On every older WoTC product in the DMS Guild right now:

"We recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website, does not reflect the values of the Dungeon & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end."

Well, that's a start. But maybe they could crib a little a less from the Warner Bros. disclaimer?

The cartoons you are about to see are products of their time. They may depict some of the ethnic and racial prejudices that were commonplace in American society. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. While the following does not represent the Warner Bros. view of today's society, these cartoons are being presented as they were originally created, because to do otherwise is the same as claiming these prejudices never existed.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well, that's a start. But maybe they could crib a little a less from the Warner Bros. disclaimer?

The cartoons you are about to see are products of their time. They may depict some of the ethnic and racial prejudices that were commonplace in American society. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. While the following does not represent the Warner Bros. view of today's society, these cartoons are being presented as they were originally created, because to do otherwise is the same as claiming these prejudices never existed.

Does the fact that they're using the same language make it less relevant, or weaken the message? Looks pretty solid to me, and exactly what I'd expect them to do.

 

[Cadence]

Does the fact that they're using the same language make it less relevant, or weaken the message? Looks pretty solid to me, and exactly what I'd expect them to do.

I was surprised they put it on every single thing from 4th edition back. Does WB put it on every DVD regardless of the content if its 10 years old or older? Or do they judge based on the disc content?

 

[JEB]

Does the fact that they're using the same language make it less relevant, or weaken the message? Looks pretty solid to me, and exactly what I'd expect them to do.

Definitely the right idea, but copying from another disclaimer's text looks a little lazy, is all. And "lazy" might not be a good thing to convey in this situation.

I was surprised they put it on every single thing from 4th edition back.

Well, it certainly helps future-proof them from any other complaints about legacy content. Very efficient of them. But again, do they want to convey "efficient"? Also, making it indiscriminate seems unfair to the many works that actually didn't have any problems... or maybe this is a tacit admission they all might have some problem.

 

[Lanefan]

Actually, my go-to low-level bad-guys are cultists and bandits.

And, I could easily have elf bandits, orc bandits, human bandits, and have them all work together.

I honestly don't understand why your games require an entire racial enemy for low-level play.

Simplicity, mostly.

When the enemies are the same creature types as the PCs then said PCs are faced with a choice: either go full-on murderhobo and kill 'em all anyway or start having to sort through them and by whatever means determine which ones are worth saving and which aren't (or failing that, somehow get them all back to town so the local authorities can look after it).

Far simpler just to be able to say "There's Orcs in those woods; and if you meet one in there either you or it ain't coming out." That said, if the PCs go in and meet one and decide they want to talk to it rather than fight it, cool.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

So another thread is talking specifically about David Cook, who worked on a lot of the OA stuff for TSR, and their trying to figure out more recent work by him had me just poking around on Google and I ran across an old page about an auction he held back in 2013 to sell off a ton of TSR stuff. One thing on that list caught my eye and made me wish we could somehow know what was in them:

David "Zeb" Cook Auctions TSR Collection

The item in question:

TSR AD&D Oriental Adventures Letters Signed Gygax/Cook 1985-1987

 

[Myrdin Potter]

Well, that's a start. But maybe they could crib a little a less from the Warner Bros. disclaimer?

The cartoons you are about to see are products of their time. They may depict some of the ethnic and racial prejudices that were commonplace in American society. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. While the following does not represent the Warner Bros. view of today's society, these cartoons are being presented as they were originally created, because to do otherwise is the same as claiming these prejudices never existed.

I take that fully as a sign that Hasbro is stepping in. They are the movie company.