WotC Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

[pemerton]

Similarly when thinking about the "But D&D is supposed to be a pastiche of cultures," I've also been considering starting a discussion on brilliant settings like Tékumel - which to the best of my knowledge has nowhere near the level of accusations of racism, even if we adjust comparative levels of exposure between it and OA - and why certain cultural pastiches of non-Western cultures work while others don't.

Tekumel has its own issues with orientalism

I think Dire Bare is right here. Asian Studies departments aren't necessarily havens from Orientalism!

 

[Aldarc]

I think Dire Bare is right here. Asian Studies departments aren't necessarily havens from Orientalism!

Not suggesting that they are, but, rather, that Tékmuel garners comparatively greater praise than criticism for its constructed cultures than OA.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I applaud the action taken in putting up the disclaimers. If only to end this (IMO) incredibly stupid debate.

I am reminded of going to Los Angeles more than a decade ago, and seeing, for the first time, labels on almost every thing (including buildings) informing me that they might cause cancer. As well-intentioned as those labels were, the initial shock quickly turned into a lack of caring. If everything is labeled as possibly causing cancer, then, well, who cares about the relative risks of anything, right? This is roughly the equivalent of slapping labels on all films saying that they might depict sexuality or violence, such that Salo, or the 120 Days of Sodom is labeled the same way as The Muppets Take Manhattan.

It is an unfortunate and banal truism that all products are reflections of their time. If you buy something from 1850, or 1985, it is unlikely to reflect everything we expect today; in much the same way that if you bought a car from 1950 that had not been changed in any way, it wouldn't meet current concerns regarding pollution controls.

Merchant of Venice does not reflect appropriate concerns regarding anti-semitism, and Romeo and Juliet does not reflect age-appropriate romance. Gilbert & Sullivan is not exactly culturally sensitive (and I can't imagine what Mr. Kwan would make of The Mikado; I would assume that's at least 5000 tweets and 10,000 hours of Youtube). Stanley Kubrick spent his career as a filmmaker pretty much ignoring LGBTQ roles and representation, as did almost all directors from the dawn of Hollywood through, well, today.

Yes, old books reflect their time. They should probably be labeled as books as well. Again, to the extent this will stop people from complaining on twitter about it,* it's a good thing I guess.


*It's twitter; people will find a new and even more annoying thing tomorrow, if they haven't already.

 

[Lanefan]

You mean something like:

Creature Type: Humanoid (High Elf)

No, just Creature Type: High Elf. (I rarely if ever bother with the Humanoid-Aberrant-Outsider-etc. groupings)

I find the term far more representative than "species" or "folk" or any of the various other possible replacements that have come up.

 

[Bagpuss]

I applaud the action taken in putting up the disclaimers. If only to end this (IMO) incredibly stupid debate.

Probably the best solution but if you think this will end the debate I think you are mistaken. It won't be enough for some people and it will be too much for others. Most of in the middle will be fine with it, but the internet is all about the loudest voices so you can bet they will keep going on about it.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Probably the best solution but if you think this will end the debate I think you are mistaken. It won't be enough for some people and it will be too much for others. Most of in the middle will be fine with it, but the internet is all about the loudest voices so you can bet they will keep going on about it.

I hope not. I am so tired of this. This has been incredibly disheartening for me. I never thought that there were so many people in this hobby that reflexively and uncritically were against the freedom of expression.

This has been difficult, because I understand at a basic level that they mean well. TTRPGs today are so much more tolerant, diverse, and welcoming than they ever were. The idea that D&D 5e is including LGBTQ characters in the books, in addition to including diverse races and genders?

So amazing. So wonderful. If you are a gamer familiar with the dawn of the game, it's almost impossible to imagine, and yet we are here. That's not to say that this is the end! Things will always change.

But the reason we are here, now, is because voices weren't stifled. Because people did speak up, at real risk to themselves. Because, eventually, we were able to break through the barriers of the guardians who told us what was "good" speech and "bad" speech.

It just reminds me of the patronizing I used to get. Eh, I think I'm going to take Todd's advice in the other thread and let it go. There's a warning on the product, it's done.

 

[Aldarc]

It seems more like people in our hobby like Kwan are speaking up and others are wanting to silence him but the free speech advocates are more interested in defending his detractors than his speech.

 

[Sadras]

It seems more like people in our hobby like Kwan are speaking up and others are wanting to silence him but the free speech advocates are more interested in defending his detractors than his speech.

No one is silencing Kwan. No one is requesting to have his videos taken down.
Apples - Kiwi

 

[Aldarc]

No one is silencing Kwan. No one is requesting to have his videos taken down.
Apples - Kiwi

I would be more inclined to believe that was the case if people referred to him more by name and not as some Asian whose opinions we should doubt because of the monetization of YouTube.

 

[Panda-s1]

I would be more inclined to believe that was the case if people did not refer to him more by name and not as some Asian whose opinions we should doubt because of the monetization of YouTube.

what does the monetization have to do with it anyway? are people actually giving him grief for profiting off his expertise? he's not allowed to make money doing his job? should we not pay professors to lecture students? lol

EDIT: also treating him like he's some sorta outsider when he's someone who plays D&D and writes and sells material for it.