WotC Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

[Bedrockgames]

You don't have to be Asian or of Asian descent to write quality Asian-inspired fantasy . . . . .

But we need more Asian-Inspired fantasy written by artists of Asian descent in the tabletop scene. Here's a new Kickstarter to check out: Jiangshi: Blood in the Banquet Hall. It's not D&D 5E, and it is in a modern setting (1920s) rather than medieval. The premise is interesting, you play a Chinese family running a restaurant by day, and fighting vampires at night! The game has a lot of props and looks gorgeous! Check it out!

On this, I agree 100%. I do think getting more Asian creators into the hobby is good. And this book in particular has me quite excited.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Too be fare there a loads of things in traditional D&D that aren't of historically contemporary periods. I think that one should be fine.

Yeah, Druids and Paladins/Assassins, completely disjoint in any historical way (not to mention all of them being highly dubious depictions in a historical sense, if not a fantasy/folklore sense).

 

[prosfilaes]

You want more slavic based D&D? You have Ravenloft.

Ravenloft? You mean the setting that started by being based off an English novel set in London and Transylvania? There's a bunch of sort of Slavic names usually combined with Germanic "von" but I don't see any real Slavic influence in Ravenloft. In fact, if we analyzed Ravenloft the same way we're tearing apart OA, taking the Romanian Vlad the Impaler and Slavizing him probably is quite offensive to some people.

Is that an artifact of the time? Probably. Like you said, the information was maybe less available. Although, I'm thinking that your local library actually may have had a fair bit of Chinese, Thai, Cambodian, Korean or whatnot information, if you actually wanted to look.

OA was entirely clear in its introduction; it was covering China, Korea, Japan and Mongolia. It was not covering Thai or Cambodia.

At a certain point, can't OA be bad or frustrating without being racist? It seems like OA is being held up to a way higher standard than any other D&D book. "It was based too heavily on one culture, but mixed in a little of other cultures" seems something to complain about, not accuse the volume of being racist for.

 

[Derren]

You don't have to be Asian or of Asian descent to write quality Asian-inspired fantasy . . . . .

Following the arguments about cultural appropriation you have to be. As the only other way to not appropriate is to have a thoroughly researched, historically faithful and of course vetted by actual Asians book. And its hard to write something like this when by definition fantasy, especially for a melting pot game like D&D can't be definition be historically faithful.

 

[Cadence]

OA was entirely clear in its introduction; it was covering China, Korea, Japan and Mongolia. It was not covering Thai or Cambodia.

The second paragraph of the preface was even clearer that it was mostly Japan...

WotC - Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

I originally read this as an attempt to obscure the sexual violence implicit in the older half-orc lore, rather than to emphasize it more strongly. Mainly due to "crossbreed," which doesn't necessarily imply force. Not discounting your take; just an alternate perspective. That said, I'm of the...

www.enworld.org

 

[Wulfhelm]

Why? D&D is not historic at all, so why should Japan now receive special treatment and receive a historic setting?

... errr... they made seven historic settings for AD&D in the early 90s, and as noted, not one of them was non-European in focus.

 

[Derren]

... errr... they made seven historic settings for AD&D in the early 90s, and as noted, not one of them was non-European in focus.

Which in retrospect was a smart thing to do as otherwise now people would cry about them, too.

Still they were one shot projects decades ago and never followed up.

 

[TheSword]

Damned stereotyped Garrick Olivander and his wands!!!

On this, I agree 100%. I do think getting more Asian creators into the hobby is good. And this book in particular has me quite excited.

It does sound interesting.

Following the arguments about cultural approbation you have to be. As the only other way to not approbate is to have a thoroughly researched, historically faithful and of course vetted by actual Asians book. And its hard to write something like this when by definition fantasy, especially for a melting pot game like D&D can't be definition be historically faithful.

Cultural appropriation isn’t all the same gravity. Using the stylised images of Native American leaders as the mascot for sports clubs by the people who stole their land is not on the same level as opening a French restaurant in your home town because you enjoy cooking that kind of food.

Just because something involves using another cultures identity. It doesn’t make it automatically immoral.

 

[Fenris-77]

... errr... they made seven historic settings for AD&D in the early 90s, and as noted, not one of them was non-European in focus.

So? The material in the core books wasn't that historical or specific. The material in OA is actually far, far, to closer historical Japan than the PHB is to any of those historical periods. What would be the point in essentially rewriting that same material with Japan? Especially if there were some doubt about that book's potential market. I love how many people say this and that should have been published when its not their money on the line. Meh.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Neither D&D nor OA are historically accurate. But that isn't the point of either, and in a game, there is nothing wrong with anachronisms (especially if the game is based on movies or books that are more historical romance, or settings that pack different historical periods together). Historical accuracy is fine if that is the goal. I hope we are not entering a period in gaming where historical accuracy is required of people (D&D settings are nothing like the middle ages they are inspired by----and they often span a vast range of historical periods in terms of what historical elements are there).

I think a BIG part of the problem is that OA talks about 'Fantasy Asia', and it puts out Kara-Tur as its default setting. Kara-Tur pretty clearly, IIRC explicitly, provides 2 analogues each of China and Japan (and oddly nothing else, though in fairness the book is not that long). Then it describes them all using ONLY terms appropriate to Japan. Now, its a fantasy world, they could have simply created a much less obvious set of parallels and maybe that would be a bit less problematic, but they didn't. Fantasy China is filled with Samurai, Ninjas, etc. and it isn't like it is just some area, like "The Sword Coast" of FR which is kinda sorta maybe a mashup of various literary fantasy settings, western Europe in a very vague general way, etc. The OA kingdoms are VERY explicitly specific parts of Fantasy Asia which are clearly intended to be exactly analogues of real nations (albeit in some vague time period, in a fantasy world, and with a somewhat altered geography).