Dungeons & Dragons Releases New Unearthed Arcana Subclasses, Strongly Hinting at Dark Sun

Wizards of the Coast has released four new D&D subclasses for playtesting, all of which have heavy thematic ties to the post-apocalyptic Dark Sun setting. The four subclasses, released as "Apocalyptic Subclasses," include the Circle of Preservation Druid, the Gladiator Fighter, the Defiled Sorcerer, and the Sorcerer-King Patron Warlock. Although not stated outright, the Gladiator and Sorcerer-King Patron are explicit nods to the Dark Sun setting, set in a ruined world ruled by Sorcerer-Kings where gladiatorial fights were common.

The Circle of Preservation Druid creates areas of preserved land that grants buffs to those who stand upon it. The Gladiator adds secondary Weapon Mastery properties to their attacks, with bonus abilities. Notably, the Gladiator uses Charisma as its secondary stat. The Defiled Sorcerer can expend its hit dice to amp up damage to its attacks and can also steal the life of its targets to deal additional damage. The Sorcerer-King Patron gains a number of abilities tying into tyranny and oppression, with the ability to cast Command as a Bonus Action without expending a spell slot, causing targets to gain the Frightened Condition, and forcing those who attack them to re-roll successful attacks.

The survey for the subclasses goes live on August 28th.

 

[Garmel]

I'll be able to show you one soon when you get moderated for challenging moderation!

He's a good guy for shutting me down, huh? Wow

Btw, I'm not challenging anyone, just debating.

 

[Remathilis]

He's a good guy for shutting me down, huh? Wow

Btw, I'm not challenging anyone, just debating.

First rule of Enworld: you don't debate red text. Unless you're not a fan of your account.

 

[Garmel]

First rule of Enworld: you don't debate red text. Unless you're not a fan of your account.

If I can't debate freely then I don't care.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Star Wars is a good example of how a franchise allows space for multiple spin-off but next to this the region of Tyr is like a sitcom where all the action happens between four rooms.

Some players would rather the setting to be grimmdark always, but others want to be only in the begining until their heroes started to save the day and to create a change. One of the points of the setting is a lot of things are wrong, but we have got some opportunity to start to change it. It is like somebody who is fighting against her depression everyday. Each day she has to start a new fight but she can't surrender because it will be worse.

I don't worry too much about the metaplot but I feel curiosity about the secrets weren't told and I may miss the heroes from the novels.

And state-cities have to be bigger. Do you remember urban sandbox videogames like the saga "Grand Thief Auto". Within a district there are several quests that may mean its own story. Today a city-state shouldn't be smaller than the zone for an urban sandbox videogame.

Maybe the mistake of the region of Tyr or Athasian tablelands is it seems there aren't more populations beyond the "capitals"/state-cities. Players want a complete continent, not only a region like a state or a small nation.

Can Athasian PCs to ressurect? And what if a SK is killed but there is a resurrection spell ready to be casted?

What is the ecological impact of the Athasian elemental drakes?

If Athasians need a lot of water, could be this fixed thanks a planar gate to the water plane?

Do you remember the living idols from al-Qadim? how would work in Athas?

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

If I can't debate freely then I don't care.

You agreed to the site terms. That includes taking disagreement with moderation to private message, or getting punted from the thread.

 

[Garmel]

You agreed to the site terms. That includes taking disagreement with moderation to private message, or getting punted from the thread.

That's not the point and you know it. The point is if someone has a POV that is ideologically different than the moderators this springs up. I said absolutely nothing wrong when I was moderated except it wasn't in agreement with those left of center.

I will take your advice and PM the mod.

 

[Morrus]

He's a good guy for shutting me down, huh? Wow

Btw, I'm not challenging anyone, just debating.

Do not argue with moderators in-thread. If you are unclear on how to deal with moderation you disagree with (aka all moderation) please refer to the site rules for a refresher. I hope that’s clear.

 

[Remathilis]

And although you’re right, the setting is bleak, your assessment of it and those who like it is, in my experience, inaccurate. Athas is a setting in dire need of heroes. There is plenty of opportunity for heroism. Whenever my group and I have played in the setting, the characters have definitely leaned heroic overall.

How does the setting promote heroic play? I ask this in genuine curiosity. From an outsider perspective, it doesn't. (Or, didn't, pre 4e).

I compared to classic Ravenloft because Ravenloft is superficially similar (grim setting, evil overpowers good) but while Ravenloft doesn't provide carrots to play good-PCs (most goodly-aligned options are weakened or not available) it strongly uses sticks to encourage non-evil behavior (Evil play invokes Powers checks, which corrupt the PC to eventually become a NPC monster). So while on paper it was easy to see a Necromancer was more powerful than diviner, the necromancer was going to fast-track his own destruction just through regular use of his abilities. Hence, while Good was objectively an inferior option in the short run (less power), it was superior in the long run (your character wasn't going to become an irredeemable monster).

What is stopping Dark Sun characters (especially characters like templars or defilers) from being outright bastards? Preserving is viewed as weaker than defiling (how much weaker it actually was in the rules has been debated), paladins were anathema to the setting (both from the No Gods element and the whole idea of a noble heroic crusader not fitting). What carrot encourages heroic PCs, what stick dissuades evil ones? The best I got is "if they discover you are a defiler, you are shunned or hunted" which I feel ends up either being a nothingburger (there is little a horde of NPCs can do you a sufficient level party) or collapsing the whole campaign (Thok got us kicked out of the third City-State in a row. Why do we travel with this guy?)

I've seen some people in this thread float the idea that PCs who are intentionally gimping themselves are somehow more heroic because they choose the weaker path. Noble and all, but the game isn't exactly rewarding sacrifice, especially when Dark Sun is billed as harsh survival and life is cheap. Which again begs the question why would you pick the noble path the even the slightly-less-noble path earns you far greater odds?

I'm genuinely curious what Dark Sun does to encourage heroism or at least dissuade rat-bastardry.

 

[Chaltab]

How does the setting promote heroic play? I ask this in genuine curiosity. From an outsider perspective, it doesn't. (Or, didn't, pre 4e).

I compared to classic Ravenloft because Ravenloft is superficially similar (grim setting, evil overpowers good) but while Ravenloft doesn't provide carrots to play good-PCs (most goodly-aligned options are weakened or not available) it strongly uses sticks to encourage non-evil behavior (Evil play invokes Powers checks, which corrupt the PC to eventually become a NPC monster). So while on paper it was easy to see a Necromancer was more powerful than diviner, the necromancer was going to fast-track his own destruction just through regular use of his abilities. Hence, while Good was objectively an inferior option in the short run (less power), it was superior in the long run (your character wasn't going to become an irredeemable monster).

What is stopping Dark Sun characters (especially characters like templars or defilers) from being outright bastards? Preserving is viewed as weaker than defiling (how much weaker it actually was in the rules has been debated), paladins were anathema to the setting (both from the No Gods element and the whole idea of a noble heroic crusader not fitting). What carrot encourages heroic PCs, what stick dissuades evil ones? The best I got is "if they discover you are a defiler, you are shunned or hunted" which I feel ends up either being a nothingburger (there is little a horde of NPCs can do you a sufficient level party) or collapsing the whole campaign (Thok got us kicked out of the third City-State in a row. Why do we travel with this guy?)

I've seen some people in this thread float the idea that PCs who are intentionally gimping themselves are somehow more heroic because they choose the weaker path. Noble and all, but the game isn't exactly rewarding sacrifice, especially when Dark Sun is billed as harsh survival and life is cheap. Which again begs the question why would you pick the noble path the even the slightly-less-noble path earns you far greater odds?

I'm genuinely curious what Dark Sun does to encourage heroism or at least dissuade rat-bastardry.

I find this a strange take. Why play a good guy in any setting if you can get more stuff being a bastard? That implies that getting stuff and being more powerful is the primary motivation of the party, which... I mean, fair, some parties it is. But if the party is motivated by heroism or a desire to stop the Sorcerer Kings and make Athas better, then that's how they'll play even if it's harder and less monetarily rewarding.

 

[Michael Blackett]

How does the setting promote heroic play? I ask this in genuine curiosity. From an outsider perspective, it doesn't. (Or, didn't, pre 4e).

I compared to classic Ravenloft because Ravenloft is superficially similar (grim setting, evil overpowers good) but while Ravenloft doesn't provide carrots to play good-PCs (most goodly-aligned options are weakened or not available) it strongly uses sticks to encourage non-evil behavior (Evil play invokes Powers checks, which corrupt the PC to eventually become a NPC monster). So while on paper it was easy to see a Necromancer was more powerful than diviner, the necromancer was going to fast-track his own destruction just through regular use of his abilities. Hence, while Good was objectively an inferior option in the short run (less power), it was superior in the long run (your character wasn't going to become an irredeemable monster).

What is stopping Dark Sun characters (especially characters like templars or defilers) from being outright bastards? Preserving is viewed as weaker than defiling (how much weaker it actually was in the rules has been debated), paladins were anathema to the setting (both from the No Gods element and the whole idea of a noble heroic crusader not fitting). What carrot encourages heroic PCs, what stick dissuades evil ones? The best I got is "if they discover you are a defiler, you are shunned or hunted" which I feel ends up either being a nothingburger (there is little a horde of NPCs can do you a sufficient level party) or collapsing the whole campaign (Thok got us kicked out of the third City-State in a row. Why do we travel with this guy?)

I've seen some people in this thread float the idea that PCs who are intentionally gimping themselves are somehow more heroic because they choose the weaker path. Noble and all, but the game isn't exactly rewarding sacrifice, especially when Dark Sun is billed as harsh survival and life is cheap. Which again begs the question why would you pick the noble path the even the slightly-less-noble path earns you far greater odds?

I'm genuinely curious what Dark Sun does to encourage heroism or at least dissuade rat-bastardry.

Well, as an example I recall on of the first scenario packs the PCs were all Slaves forced to build a ziggurat in Tyr for the tyrant sorcerer-king who was seeking to speed up his transformation.
...
He wasn't, successful and paid the ultimate price in the climax, with all the templates of Tyr losing their magic, being that they were clerics devoted to the soŕcerer-king.
...
The follow up saw the PCs struggle to keep the city-state free from rival city-states. Now freemen their actions helped shape the city-state into an independent one...
...
A separate scenario pack involved travelling/escorting a preserved wizard/sorcerer to a fertile Realm beyond treacherous city states, a mountain range. Tending with cannibal halflings along the way. So in the end the mage ascended to the preserve equivalent of the Dragon of Athas.
...
It should be worth mentioning that all sorcerer kings are powerful defiler/psychics in the setting (level 21+) seeking to become dragons. Also of note, there is only one Dragon on Athas - he doesn't share power and brooks no competitors.