D&D 5E Dungeonscape no more?

[Umbran]

The UI isn't pretty and the output format leaves something to be desired, BUT IT WORKS.

Define "works". WotC very likely has requirements that you don't, as I noted upthread. Things like: It needs to work for tens of thousands (if there's calls to non-local storage). Game information must be easily (nigh instantly) updatable with new supplements, *but* that game content information cannot be stored locally in an easily-exported form (for sake of piracy concerns). It must support some form of license verification or login for content updates (that must meet the load and security requiremetns already mentioend. It also has to include mechanisms for programmatic updates and bug fixes as well.

Support for you and support for the D&D community at large are qualitatively different, and that imposes some engineering that you probably haven't had to deal with for yourself.

 

[casterblaster]

WoTC cant win, if they don't announce anything then they aren't being transparent enough and if they do announce something and it falls through then they failed you. Its a no win situation.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I'm personally back to enworld because the only game I want to discuss right now is D&D. And enworld is great for D&D. But that doesn't mean that everyone with a low post count is somehow inferior to everyone else. It does nothing to strengthen or weaken anyone's argument. Sorry.

Inferiority has nothing to do with it. Believability is something completely different. And unfortunately you don't get to just show up on the boards and say "X is totally possible! I did it already! I just can't show it to you yet!" and expect any of us to accept what you say as immutable fact without actually showing us any proof.

Some people here on the boards have earned my trust to perhaps accept something they say just on faith, because I've seen what they have and haven't done and said over many years here on ENWorld. Other folks? You need to give me something first before I can accept your claims no questions asked.

 

[hardvice]

R

It would have been possible. My own Character Builder reached 95% completeness in the meanwhile, and I am just one guy doing this in his freetime (you have to take my word on it as well as on the quality of my character builder, sadly due to licence issues I cannot release it - I am still hoping there will be a nice and open licence in the future).

For me, this is the real frustration in the DungeonScape saga: by giving TT an exclusive license, it curtailed a lot of really awesome development within the community, which has put out some pretty outstanding apps for all platforms so far for 3rd/4th editions. Hopefully people are doing what you're doing and just developing stuff anyway, even if it never sees the light of day (though I hope it does!)

Do you have any kind of email list if the licensing does become available? I've tried about everything for 3rd edition and will try everything for 5th, too. Hope it works out for you.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Define "works". WotC very likely has requirements that you don't, as I noted upthread. Things like: It needs to work for tens of thousands (if there's calls to non-local storage). Game information must be easily (nigh instantly) updatable with new supplements, *but* that game content information cannot be stored locally in an easily-exported form (for sake of piracy concerns). It must support some form of license verification or login for content updates (that must meet the load and security requiremetns already mentioend. It also has to include mechanisms for programmatic updates and bug fixes as well.

Support for you and support for the D&D community at large are qualitatively different, and that imposes some engineering that you probably haven't had to deal with for yourself.

Support for monetization and IP protection is of no concern to the end user. That's the publishers problem. As a HOBBY tool, to create characters, it works.

Every fan who pours his/her heart & soul into functional tools that work for a game they enjoy and wants to share these creations is attempting to help support the community at large without concern for personal profit.

Putting the legal smackdown on these tools because WOTC couldn't figure out how to do it and make a nickel at the same time might be considered good business by some, but if growing the brand and the overall popularity of D&D is the plan, not permitting fan made tools runs against the grain.

If it is a case of WOTC being unwilling to invest the capital it takes to develop real pro grade software, then let some fan somewhere do it for them at zero cost. Zero cost might men zero revenue, but if one is unwilling to invest to see that revenue, well then it becomes a case of poop or get off the pot. The game is new, popularity is riding high, and people want their cool toys NOW. Sure it's better to release something good later than something horrible now, but be honest about the resources you are willing to commit to it.

 

[hardvice]

It's not so much a replacement as the best tool for accessibility and portability.

With a non-obfuscated OEM PDF, one can find the content quickly, use a Text-To-Speech, or copy and paste powers text into a character sheet. Right there, that's a lot of the tech.

...

So, really, the real trick is just getting us the legal data.

That's actually a really good point. PDFs solves a lot of the problem with licensing woes in digital tools, but digital tools doesn't solve the lack of ebook options. On iOS I'd be perfectly content with Fight Club if I could just cut-and-paste feature text from a PDF — setting up the actual bonuses and calculations is pretty easy. I'm assuming that's the case for the Android tools you mention, too.

So PDFs plus enough of a licensing framework to allow people to release apps stripped of copyrighted content without fear of reprisal actually kind of is a livable solution, though obviously PDFs plus licensed material for apps would be a better one.

 

[Umbran]

Putting the legal smackdown on these tools because WOTC couldn't figure out how to do it...

Stop right there.

They aren't going to put a smackdown on them because their own attempt failed. They do so because their content is protected by copyright. Period. The fate of their own attempt is irrelevant. Do not assign causes and motivations that make them sound petty, when the same action is explained by much less problematic reasons. You yourself admit that IP protection is their problem. So, you kind of have to expect them to take such actions, now don't you?

Fans are great, but being a fan does not entitle one to redistribute content you don't own.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Stop right there.

They aren't going to put a smackdown on them because their own attempt failed. They do so because their content is protected by copyright. Period. The fate of their own attempt is irrelevant. Do not assign causes and motivations that make them sound petty, when the same action is explained by much less problematic reasons.

Fans are great, but being a fan does not entitle one to redistribute content you don't own.

Yes, WOTC owns the content and may do whatever they want with it. The reality of the situation is that if they take too long getting something official out there, no one may care about the content anymore.

 

[Umbran]

The reality of the situation is that if they take too long getting something official out there, no one may care about the content anymore.

The "reality" of the situation is that they may lose *some* customers. Suggestions that lack of electronic support will lead to complete abandonment by all players are hyperbole. We can do without such.

I know lots of people wanted the electronic tools. And having this project hit so major a stumble is frustrating. But let us not be Chicken Little, okay?

Another reality is that Trapdoor Technologies is a tiny company. They've got like 10 employees, and have been around since 2009 or so - basically, still a startup. Small companies hit big issues all the time, and projects fail. It happens. Frequently enough, it isn't even really anyone's fault. It is not the end of the world, for them, or for us.

 

[mcbobbo]

Well YEAH! Who doesn't like free?

For sure, but I was rebutting the idea that people only wanted a subscription, or that WotC would only release it, or whatever slippery slope that was.

I think loads of people would use a free tool, just like loads of people have downloaded Basic.