Dwarven Rogue

[Rystil Arden]

1 - Rog1: Combat Expertise
2 - Rog1/Ftr1: TWF
3 - Rog1/Ftr2: Weapon Focus (Dwarven Urgosh), Dodge
6 - Rog4/Ftr2: ITWF
9 - Rog7/Ftr2: Sense Weakness
12 - Rog10/Ftr2: GTWF, Special Ability (Improved Evasion -- since that's what everyone gets)
13 - Rog11/Ftr2: Sneak Attack +6d6

Notes:

*This is a fighting-heavy build, but I don't recommend Rogues get into melee combat too much due to low HD. Dodge was kind of thrown in there, but could be replaced with Combat Reflexes in order to take advantage of a high Dex. Or Improved Initiative since combined with a high Dex makes sure you go first in combat. Improved Feint is nice, especially at low levels too.

*Sense Weakness is an awesome feat from the Draconomicon. Alternately, replace with Improved Critical, since the DU only crits on a 20.

*I started with Rogue first to get the x4 skill point boost.

*If you want more combat, take more levels in Fighter, take more feats. Power Attack is nice with double weapons since you can alternate between TWF and 2-handed weapon.

*Don't bother with Two Weapon Defense. Go for the Ring of Force Shield or similar as soon as you can.

*I only made the build to 13th level, but if you're wanting to go combat, then get at least 2 more levels in Fighter. Boost your BAB up to +16 so you get 4 attacks by level 20.

You are selecting feats for which the character doesn't meet the prerequisites here. Shhh...maybe the DM won't notice the BAB problem with the two-weapon feats. ^^

 

[Jdvn1]

You are selecting feats for which the character doesn't meet the prerequisites here. Shhh...maybe the DM won't notice the BAB problem with the two-weapon feats. ^^

Shoot, you're right. I assumed BAB = level since I play too many fighters.

Edit: Fixed.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Shoot, you're right. I assumed BAB = level since I play too many fighters.

Edit: Fixed.

Hehe, feats work perfectly now, but now you go over the 13th level limit to get GTWF. It shouldn't be a big deal though, since that last attack is unlikely to hit anyways. I still like my Invisible Blade though ^^

 

[Jdvn1]

Hehe, feats work perfectly now, but now you go over the 13th level limit to get GTWF. It shouldn't be a big deal though, since that last attack is unlikely to hit anyways. I still like my Invisible Blade though ^^

Well, he asked for a build, so I made a partial-build. Tells him where to go with the levels he has as well as what to aim for.

I like the Invisible Blade builds too, but I dont' think they're big damage builds. Also, I think double weapons are more versatile since you can switch to 2-handed and get an attack roll boost for high-AC creatures, which also increases damage per hit.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Well, he asked for a build, so I made a partial-build. Tells him where to go with the levels he has as well as what to aim for.

I like the Invisible Blade builds too, but I dont' think they're big damage builds. Also, I think double weapons are more versatile since you can switch to 2-handed and get an attack roll boost for high-AC creatures, which also increases damage per hit.

Double-weapons are very nice, and the best part is that the second head of the weapon doesn't have to be light, so for instance a two-bladed-sword lets you effectively dual-wield longswords. Overall, the urgosh does 3 points of damage more than two kukris with a critical that is only 2/3 as good (Expected values for crit-ranges: 20/x2=1/20, 19-20/x2=1/10, 20/x3=1/10, 18-20/x2=3/20, 20/x4=3/20, 19-20/x3=sword-axe from Arcana Unearthed=1/5). The urgosh is certainly better as a weapon, but I'd take the free feints and weapon-finesse personally. Oh, and your build does more Sneak Attack damage because I took the 3 levels in Dwarf Paragon. Replacing those with another PrC or Rogue levels will equal us out on that, so the Invisible Blade doesn't do almost any less damage (barring Power Attack, which lowers hit chance of course, but is still a nice option). Both really cool builds, and I think Lasher will be greatful for the variety of options we "night owls" have cooked up.

 

[Jdvn1]

Yeah, your Build seems more Dex heavy, mine's for Dex-and-Str. Depends on what the guy is going for. I'd never play a double-weapon Rogue, though. If I wanted to be in combat, I'd take Ftr for more hp and BAB. In my sig, I have a Farid, a Dwarf Fighter TWF, which is where I got my obsession for Dwarven Urgoshes.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Yeah, your Build seems more Dex heavy, mine's for Dex-and-Str. Depends on what the guy is going for. I'd never play a double-weapon Rogue, though. If I wanted to be in combat, I'd take Ftr for more hp and BAB. In my sig, I have a Farid, a Dwarf Fighter TWF, which is where I got my obsession for Dwarven Urgoshes.

The HP and BAB are definitely useful for front-line fighters, but the problem is that two-handed weapons usually outclass TWF in 3.5, especially with the Power Attack rule that a two-handed weapon gets double power attack and an off-hand weapon none at all. I typically only see rogues go TWF, and they do so because they get all those d6s added to each attack, so they want as many attacks as possible. Other than a rogue (or somebody else with d6s to throw around like a duelist), I could only see a ranger with his favoured enemy bonus and his free TWF feats or someone with some heavily enhanced weapons springing for the feats to get those extra attacks.

 

[Jdvn1]

The HP and BAB are definitely useful for front-line fighters, but the problem is that two-handed weapons usually outclass TWF in 3.5, especially with the Power Attack rule that a two-handed weapon gets double power attack and an off-hand weapon none at all.

That's the advantage with double weapons, I think. You can make them two-handed when you want. Generally, though, I agree with you. TWF builds with two weapons are easily outclassed. The variety of a double weapon I think is the selling factor, though.

I typically only see rogues go TWF, and they do so because they get all those d6s added to each attack, so they want as many attacks as possible.

Oh, you mean as opposed to other classes? I was like, "Oh, I like to play them as archers. You've never seen that?"

 

[Rystil Arden]

That's the advantage with double weapons, I think. You can make them two-handed when you want. Generally, though, I agree with you. TWF builds with two weapons are easily outclassed. The variety of a double weapon I think is the selling factor, though.


Oh, you mean as opposed to other classes? I was like, "Oh, I like to play them as archers. You've never seen that?"

Oh, yeah I was being ambiguous but you figured it out ^^ Yeah, I've seen plenty of different kinds of rogues, but rogues are the ones who liked TWF.

I'll admit that double-weapon variety is very useful, particularly weapons like the urgosh that do two damage types. I find that a lot of the fighters who prefer variety over pure damage like to go spiked-chain for the reach, trip (and +2 disarm), not to mention Weapon Finesse and Power Attack both. I once made an NPC with a double-weapon, and although he wasn't numerically as powerful as some of the two-handed PCs, he got a few good rolls that made him seem impressive and kept up a witty banter during combat to the point that they remembered Deryn of the Dualblade and went after him before some of the more powerful NPCs when they met him later in a team melee battle at a jousting tournament. Mmm...NPC flavour.

 

[Jdvn1]

Oh, yeah I was being ambiguous but you figured it out ^^ Yeah, I've seen plenty of different kinds of rogues, but rogues are the ones who liked TWF.

I'll admit that double-weapon variety is very useful, particularly weapons like the urgosh that do two damage types. I find that a lot of the fighters who prefer variety over pure damage like to go spiked-chain for the reach, trip (and +2 disarm), not to mention Weapon Finesse and Power Attack both.

I like the Dex-based Fighters, but I can't bring myself to play a spiked-chain Fighter. Too much cheese, I think. They might get less damage, but their AC and Reflex saves thank them in the end of a battle.

I once made an NPC with a double-weapon, and although he wasn't numerically as powerful as some of the two-handed PCs, he got a few good rolls that made him seem impressive and kept up a witty banter during combat to the point that they remembered Deryn of the Dualblade and went after him before some of the more powerful NPCs when they met him later in a team melee battle at a jousting tournament. Mmm...NPC flavour.

My first character was ODA wielding Half-Orc. Got him up to 9 attacks per round. Definitely kept up with damage. And, of course, banter always helps. The Fighters of the party were all in a tournament and knew that we'd be the toughest people to take down, due to hp and tactics and such. We were pretty high level. So, we decided that the first character to get five touches would win our duels. ... Yeah, it actually wasn't my idea, but I liked it. I eventually got the Exotic Weapon Master ability to trip with my weapon, and that became 9 trip attacks per round with Improved Trip.. (trip, free hit, trip, free hit... please, more can surround me! Then get up! Yes! Provoke another AoO! You'll never get a full-round attack on me...). There was a later part in the game where the lead Fighter was introducing us to some military officers. Everyone had huge titles: "Sir Theron Kinley, Master of Something, Sergeant First Class, Defender of Somethingelse..." When he got to me: "This is Teg'ruk, the scariest fighter I know." Everyone takes a step back.