Dwarven Weapon Training... really?

[I'm A Banana]

It's good.

It's helped out my dwarven bard quite a bit. Dwarven Weapon Training + Versatile Expertise (wand + axe) = nice! I got my paws on a Quick Waraxe, which can spike my damage quite nicely on a lucky turn.

And there's something kind of cool about being a tanky bard. Sure, I mostly play "snipe from range," but I have no problem getting up close and violent for a few rounds.

It's better than most PHB feats.

But, then again, IMO, it's about the power level that most feats should be.

It's still not an auto-get for a dwarf. There's plenty of character builds that don't rely one whit on melee power. But a lot of dwarves will get it, and might even consider going a little melee-heavy since it's offered.

Which is cool. I like the idea that a dwarf bard is going to play different from an eladrin bard.

 

[BobTheNob]

But, then again, IMO, it's about the power level that most feats should be.

I didnt think that when we first started playing, I thought it was too much, but I let the player take it anyway.

My position is so changed now, I totally agree that this is where feats should be, at about this power level. Dont ask me to quanitfy that, its just a feel you get from having played this game so long.

It would be they "retire out" alot of the crappy feats that no-one ever takes, thin out the character builder a little (Ooooh, I have a feat that may give me a +1 to hit once in a battle....), they just take up space

 

[Shin Okada]

IMHO Dwarven Weapon Proficiency is one of the stronger feats, especially at heroic tier. But far from being broken.

And..as already pointed by others, environment changes as new supplements are published. And not always favored Dwarfs.

When AV was released, Dwarfs got Execution Axe.

When PHB II was released, Dwarfs got a weapon-wielding class which uses their higher ability score (wis). But that was an unarmored class and thus having speed of 5 did matter.

When HotFL was released, Dwarfs also got an option to have high strength. But that option (str/con) gave them worse Nads. Also, now having racial speed of 5 do matter much, because it is so easy to ignore speed penalty for wearing a heavy armor.

 

[Walking Dad]

How many different superior axes and/or hammers are dwarfs using at once? In effect, it is just a superior weapon proficiency with an extra bonus that is better than Weapon Focus on heroic and weaker than it at epic.

So you got two (general) feats worth for one racial. Where is the problem?

In contrast, the weapon feat for minotaurs is just underpowered: Some martial proficiencies without any damage bonus . Hard to choose between this and Superior Weapon Proficiency?

 

[Kralin Thornberry]

My dwarven runepriest took this as his level 1 feat....crag hammer for the win!

 

[DracoSuave]

We have races that have +2/+3/+4 progressions and +2 with no progression is worrisome?

Meh.

 

[Riastlin]

How many different superior axes and/or hammers are dwarfs using at once? In effect, it is just a superior weapon proficiency with an extra bonus that is better than Weapon Focus on heroic and weaker than it at epic.

So you got two (general) feats worth for one racial. Where is the problem?

In contrast, the weapon feat for minotaurs is just underpowered: Some martial proficiencies without any damage bonus . Hard to choose between this and Superior Weapon Proficiency?

As a DM, I actually like the fact that it gives out multiple proficiencies. It lets me toss in any axe/hammer into a treasure parcel without having to worry about "Oh, shoot, I can't use an executioner's axe." The versatility is nice from more of an old school "use what you find" perspective. The only area you might run into trouble with is the expertise feats, but even then they can likely be mitigated somewhat.

 

[Plane Sailing]

my favoured solution is to not use the 'superior' weapons from AV, which I always considered to just be power creep (an opinion which I believe finds supporting evidence in their rampant popularity on forums!)

From now on I'm essentials only, which doesn't have superior weapons AFAIK.

Cheers

 

[Shin Okada]

my favoured solution is to not use the 'superior' weapons from AV, which I always considered to just be power creep (an opinion which I believe finds supporting evidence in their rampant popularity on forums!)

I strongly oppose that. In 4e, two-handed melee weapons are not strong enough to justify the loss of +2 AC and +2 Ref from having a Heavy Shield. And PHB contains 1-handed Superior weapons (Using Bastard Sword or Waraxe in two-hand is simply stronger than using Greataxe or Greatsword). We do need Superior two-handed weapons other than Spiked Chain to give two-handed weapon wielders more reasonable options.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I strongly oppose that. In 4e, two-handed melee weapons are not strong enough to justify the loss of +2 AC and +2 Ref from having a Heavy Shield. And PHB contains 1-handed Superior weapons (Using Bastard Sword or Waraxe in two-hand is simply stronger than using Greataxe or Greatsword). We do need Superior two-handed weapons other than Spiked Chain to give two-handed weapon wielders more reasonable options.

Yeah, that was what I thought. Honestly greatsword and such pretty much exist as stopgaps you can use if you really are going to be wielding real 2-handed weapons in a level or two. Basically for the level 1 FWT GW fighter to take, or the Slayer.