E6 SRD - community project
Theo R Cwithin
I cast "Baconstorm!"
We're now checking & double-checking feats.
To rebuild these section for E6, we've moved feats that RAW 6th-level PCs can't qualify for over to the monster feats; we've also chopped out especially high-level feats (ie, BAB12+ or CL12th+) as those go beyond even the capability of monsters in this srd, even with class levels:
Feats (here in the 'Building Characters' category)
Monster Feats (here in the 'Monsters' category)
Because epic advancement in E6 depends heavily on feats, you'll note that we've also included all WotC ogc E6-relevant feats that come bundled by default with the SRD, including those from the Divine and Psionics rules. Only [General] and [Metamagic] feats are included; not [Psionic] or psi-interactive feats, or [Divine] feats.
To rebuild these section for E6, we've moved feats that RAW 6th-level PCs can't qualify for over to the monster feats; we've also chopped out especially high-level feats (ie, BAB12+ or CL12th+) as those go beyond even the capability of monsters in this srd, even with class levels:
Feats (here in the 'Building Characters' category)
Monster Feats (here in the 'Monsters' category)
Because epic advancement in E6 depends heavily on feats, you'll note that we've also included all WotC ogc E6-relevant feats that come bundled by default with the SRD, including those from the Divine and Psionics rules. Only [General] and [Metamagic] feats are included; not [Psionic] or psi-interactive feats, or [Divine] feats.
Theo R Cwithin
I cast "Baconstorm!"
Turns out the Skills I and II sections aren't "no change" as previously thought, due to references to spells of 4th+ level. So they need a look over as well, if anyone would like to proofread and comment!
Skills I
Skills II (Both are here in the 'Building Characters' category)
.
Skills I
Skills II (Both are here in the 'Building Characters' category)
.
Yora
Legend
Hello,
first let me thank you for doing all this. Once it's ready I'll surely be using it a lot. Just learned about its existance right now.
But I'm afraid I start my contribution to this work with pointing out a semi-major error:
From looking over the current test-page, it seems to me that you've fallen into the very common trap regarding the caster level of magic items. You don't have to create a magic item at the listed CL.
It's something almost everyone overlooks and I only found by accident some time ago.
A Flaming Burst weapon requires only the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat and the flame blade, flame strike, or fireball spell.
A Belt of Giants Strength only requires the Craft Wonderous Item feat and the bull's strength spell.
There are good reasons not to allow certain very powerful items, but if you use the SRD and apply only the E6 variant and nothing else, these items can be created without any problem. The listed CLs are completely abitrary and would have reduced to 6th for an E6 SRD.
I think this only affects the magical arms and armor lists and the wondrous items list. Scrolls, potions, and wands would remain unaffeced. I'm not completely sure about Rings and Rods, but I think E6 has a variant for the Forge Ring feat, so maybe one for the Create Rod feat would also be appropriate, though there not many rods to create with only 3rd level spells.
I'd even offer to expand the magic item lists, provided there's not a major error in my interpretation of the rules that makes the whole thing irrelevant. ^^
first let me thank you for doing all this. Once it's ready I'll surely be using it a lot. Just learned about its existance right now.
But I'm afraid I start my contribution to this work with pointing out a semi-major error:
From looking over the current test-page, it seems to me that you've fallen into the very common trap regarding the caster level of magic items. You don't have to create a magic item at the listed CL.
It's something almost everyone overlooks and I only found by accident some time ago.
And a lot of items in the SRD are listed with a CL much higher than is actually neccessary. All you need is to have the required feat and be able to cast the required spells. Exceptions are staves, which are explicitly mentioned as having a minimum CL of 8th.
A Flaming Burst weapon requires only the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat and the flame blade, flame strike, or fireball spell.
A Belt of Giants Strength only requires the Craft Wonderous Item feat and the bull's strength spell.
There are good reasons not to allow certain very powerful items, but if you use the SRD and apply only the E6 variant and nothing else, these items can be created without any problem. The listed CLs are completely abitrary and would have reduced to 6th for an E6 SRD.
I think this only affects the magical arms and armor lists and the wondrous items list. Scrolls, potions, and wands would remain unaffeced. I'm not completely sure about Rings and Rods, but I think E6 has a variant for the Forge Ring feat, so maybe one for the Create Rod feat would also be appropriate, though there not many rods to create with only 3rd level spells.
I'd even offer to expand the magic item lists, provided there's not a major error in my interpretation of the rules that makes the whole thing irrelevant. ^^
Theo R Cwithin
I cast "Baconstorm!"
Hi, Yora! That's an excellent point, and one that we've wondered how to deal with. Caster levels, in particular, are among the least consistent aspects of RAW when specific examples are measured against the general rule.
At this point, we've basilcally chosen to make this particular SRD a straight, stripped down version of the full SRD as published, with few modifications-- mainly for simplicity's sake. There have been some slight changes to select monsters and magic items for reasons of "epicness"; but other than that, the text of this SRD aims to stay pretty close to the original SRD.
After this SRD is finished, we hope to put up a community website (eg, a wiki) that will allow us more flexibility to deviate from the text. At that point, I hope to incorporate exactly the sorts of changes that you're proposing, as well as add-on rules for epic advancement, item creation, etc. This would constitute an "expanded" SRD that extends or improves on the one we're currently working on.
That's the hope, anyway. At the very minimum, though, even in the absence of a community site, this SRD should be an easier starting point than the full SRD for anyone interested in further refining it into their own E6 rule set.
At this point, we've basilcally chosen to make this particular SRD a straight, stripped down version of the full SRD as published, with few modifications-- mainly for simplicity's sake. There have been some slight changes to select monsters and magic items for reasons of "epicness"; but other than that, the text of this SRD aims to stay pretty close to the original SRD.
After this SRD is finished, we hope to put up a community website (eg, a wiki) that will allow us more flexibility to deviate from the text. At that point, I hope to incorporate exactly the sorts of changes that you're proposing, as well as add-on rules for epic advancement, item creation, etc. This would constitute an "expanded" SRD that extends or improves on the one we're currently working on.
That's the hope, anyway. At the very minimum, though, even in the absence of a community site, this SRD should be an easier starting point than the full SRD for anyone interested in further refining it into their own E6 rule set.
Yora
Legend
The thing is, that this is not a change to the rules. Not including the items would remove options from the game, even though they are completely viable by the rules. Including them as variant rules or optional rules would seem to give a wrong impression, as I see it.
I'm just going through the Feats on the site, and there's quite a number of feats that are not part of the SRD or the E6 document. What is the reasoning for this?
Also, there are some feats I believe are not useable by E6 characters.
Improved Critical requires BAB +8 and Persistent Spell requires 6th level spell slots. What's your prefered method of dealing with such things? Should I put them all into this thread, send you a PM, or use some feedback function of the preview site?
I'm just going through the Feats on the site, and there's quite a number of feats that are not part of the SRD or the E6 document. What is the reasoning for this?
Also, there are some feats I believe are not useable by E6 characters.
Improved Critical requires BAB +8 and Persistent Spell requires 6th level spell slots. What's your prefered method of dealing with such things? Should I put them all into this thread, send you a PM, or use some feedback function of the preview site?
Theo R Cwithin
I cast "Baconstorm!"
Yeah, it's not a real change to the rules, but it's potentially a huge change to the rules text. Frankly, making mods to that degree is ultimately governed by a very practical issue: rejiggering all those numbers and double checking them is simply a lot more work than anyone has signed up for. (It's already a bit bigger than I thought it would be!) So we're trying to keep this project mostly at the level of deleting material and maintaining internal consistency, rather than fully renovating it at risk of introducing even more inconsistency. Afaict, this is a first attempt at something like this, so we're approaching it with baby steps. 
That said, I really do hope this project continues on after this first "v1.0" iteration is completed, so we can start building up alternatives to the SRD as we're writing now. At that point, enterprising and energetic souls can mod the 773y out of it into something that's more robust.
Regarding feats, the short of it is that we've included all feats that come bundled with the full SRD, which includes a fair number of [general] and [metamagic] ones in the Divine and Psionics rules. The rationale is that E6 is very feat-dependent for epic advancement, so we went with a philsophy of more options to accomodate default "gestalt" games. Yes, this is the big, glaring exception to our normal rule of "SRD only". But we did it essentially for the same reason that we didn't simply axe artifacts and every monster with a high-level SLA.
If/when you find non-E6 material that has slipped through the first vetting process (eg, the feats you've mentioned), you can post the problem reports here, email the project address at e6BaselineSRD -at- gmail, or use the comment system on the site itself (the files are grouped by category, and the comment boxes are on the "category" pages). Anything goes; it's pretty informal!
And I'm going to go take a look at the ones you've mentioned and get them sorted out shortly. Thanks!
That said, I really do hope this project continues on after this first "v1.0" iteration is completed, so we can start building up alternatives to the SRD as we're writing now. At that point, enterprising and energetic souls can mod the 773y out of it into something that's more robust.
Regarding feats, the short of it is that we've included all feats that come bundled with the full SRD, which includes a fair number of [general] and [metamagic] ones in the Divine and Psionics rules. The rationale is that E6 is very feat-dependent for epic advancement, so we went with a philsophy of more options to accomodate default "gestalt" games. Yes, this is the big, glaring exception to our normal rule of "SRD only". But we did it essentially for the same reason that we didn't simply axe artifacts and every monster with a high-level SLA.
If/when you find non-E6 material that has slipped through the first vetting process (eg, the feats you've mentioned), you can post the problem reports here, email the project address at e6BaselineSRD -at- gmail, or use the comment system on the site itself (the files are grouped by category, and the comment boxes are on the "category" pages). Anything goes; it's pretty informal!
And I'm going to go take a look at the ones you've mentioned and get them sorted out shortly. Thanks!
The magic item is an issue that I have been struggling with in my E6 game. I thank Yora for pointing out a problem that was nagging at me, and I couldn't find the RAW to decide either way.
I can see why Orc is hestitant to implement this at this point in the project. But I'll be working on doing the math for magic item creation, and I will post my results, once its finished here, maybe for an inclusion for later versions of the E6 SRD.
I can see why Orc is hestitant to implement this at this point in the project. But I'll be working on doing the math for magic item creation, and I will post my results, once its finished here, maybe for an inclusion for later versions of the E6 SRD.
Theo R Cwithin
I cast "Baconstorm!"
Lacan, I'm not super-familiar with Pathfinder (which is your focus, iirc?), but if the item creation material you come up with is compatible, I think it would be an excellent expansion for this project in a later version. Even if it's not fully compatible, it would likely serve as a useful model.
Are you planning on creating an online version of your work? If so, it might be worthwhile to start thinking about these E6ish projects in terms of a webring or similar community structure.
Are you planning on creating an online version of your work? If so, it might be worthwhile to start thinking about these E6ish projects in terms of a webring or similar community structure.
Theo R Cwithin
I cast "Baconstorm!"
Also, Yora: I've made the fixes you pointed out regarding the Feats (Imp Crit went over to Monster Feats, while Persistent Spell got nixed).
Thanks again for catching those.
Thanks again for catching those.
