E6: The Game Inside D&D (new revision)

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Ry

Explorer
I'm hoping to get that .pdf from Nifelhein soon. Once I get that, I'll do what I did last week and ask for a threadlock and I'll repost. When I re-post, I'm going to post a separate thread for the discussion of rebalancing existing D&D elements for E6 purposes, but try to bring adding feats to E6 back into the main discussion thread. I'd like to move the core discussion from "hey, what's E6?" to "hey, what can we make with E6?"

But before we get to that does anyone have other suggestions for what needs to go into the FAQ, or the rest of the document?
 

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Ry

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I'd love to see happy fun time cross-posting! But put a link here - I usually keep to my subscribed list and rarely have any idea what's happening on boards in general.
 

rycanada said:
I'm hoping to get that .pdf from Nifelhein soon. Once I get that, I'll do what I did last week and ask for a threadlock and I'll repost. When I re-post, I'm going to post a separate thread for the discussion of rebalancing existing D&D elements for E6 purposes, but try to bring adding feats to E6 back into the main discussion thread. I'd like to move the core discussion from "hey, what's E6?" to "hey, what can we make with E6?"

But before we get to that does anyone have other suggestions for what needs to go into the FAQ, or the rest of the document?

Sample E6 charsheets for both conventional AND unconventional character classes, at 6th pre-feats, and at 6th post-feats. That would help people get more into the mindset of E6, and it answers that question in the quote. What can we do with E6?

Also, monsters that would be serious business at E6, adjusted for E6, would work wonders too.

Edit: Am I saying E6 enough?

E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6E6 :D :D
 
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Shazman

Banned
Banned
Yeah some good iconic mosnters past say CR8 that are toned down for E6 would be nice. Something like a dragon, a beholder, a lich, and maybe a giant of some kind.
 

WhatGravitas

Explorer
rycanada said:
I want to hear all about AE7, honestly. I've got AE and I thought there would be issues (quickling faen unfettered builds, sorcerous blast-heavy magisters) but if they don't materialize that would be fantastic.
Sorcerous blast-heavy magisters and unfettered builds? What issues do you mean (specifically)?

Concerning the unfettered quicklings:
Well, 7th-level gives them +3 AC bonus by class, which about makes up for the restriction to light armour (granted, they're a bit better, due to the higher max. Dex-bonus). While they're ahead of most ACs due to the parry, they still suffer from the d8 as HD and on 7th, their Sneak Attack is only +1d6. They're still very good light fighters, but I doubt they'll outshine anyone.

Concerning the magister:
Granted, sorcerous blast is very good, but even on 7th, a magister with Int 18+ will not churn out more than 6 of them per day (by weaving down the 4th-level slots). A dedicated evoker wizard on 6th can already toss 4 fireballs a day.
The big benefit of the sorcerous blast (variable damage type) isn't that big, because on 7th, you see much less resistances or immunities - this aspect only comes into play later.

And the power of spell-templates and the Modify Spell-feat? Well, ladening is a still a huge cost, especially if you only have so many slots, and the various other templates need a costly material component worth 25+ gp. On higher level, that's basically a non-cost, but when facing encounters around CR 5-6, your average treasure is about 2,000 gp, meaning it's 500 gp per party member - blowing up components worth about 5% of your personal treasure isn't that cool.

If you now consider that all classes in AE are a bit more durable (higher HD, esp. the frailer ones), it becomes much less scary - or is about on par with the power of a D&D wizard chucking fireballs, but without the combat-ending power of colour spray, black tentacles or the world-altering powers of scrying or lesser planar binding (since this stuff is higher level stuff in AE).

On another note: Many of my players (i.e. all ;) ) dislike the fact that after 6th (or 7th), you won't get any hp without the Toughness feat. I'm musing about this rule:

For every feat gained after 6th level, your max. hp increases by +1 (if a non-full BAB-class).

Even with a load of feats, this increase isn't that big, thus still preserve the feeling of being vulnerable, but show some accumulating "sturdiness".
 

green slime

First Post
But those power gamers are relying on being able to keep playing E6 well beyond 6th level. Where in fact, the DM may well pull the plug at 6th+3, which lessens the impact of the powergaming.
 

Koewn

Explorer
green slime said:
But those power gamers are relying on being able to keep playing E6 well beyond 6th level. Where in fact, the DM may well pull the plug at 6th+3, which lessens the impact of the powergaming.

True, but much of the point of E6 is to go far beyond 6th without moving the general power level past "stupendous".

On another note....

Ry, what do you think about little sub-chapters at the end of the E6 document describing either "how to" or "ramifications of" using other OGL systems with E6?

I was thinking about a little "here's how True Sorcery plays out" chapter.
 

Ry

Explorer
I'd love to see it, but as I haven't run such games I'm not the one to write it. But if someone ran such a game I'd love to include their take.
 

green slime

First Post
Koewn said:
True, but much of the point of E6 is to go far beyond 6th without moving the general power level past "stupendous".

Yes, but any system is open to abuse by players willing to spend time, effort, and forethought. A quirk of the E6 system is just that all characters accumulate loads of feats given a lengthy campaign. This has two effects:

It cheapens the fighter's 4 feat advantage (1st, 2nd, 4th, and 6th). Eventually, he'll run out of interesting fighter feats.
Humans may be less popular, due to the superior abilities of the demihumans.

Both of these issues are only issues within the context of people min-maxing/powergaming.

There are various ways with which a DM can tackle this issue, and I suggest that the E6 document state the issue, and provide various ideas how to circumvent it, without actually doing away with it. Because correcting it is adding probably going to add just more tweaking to the core rules.
 


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