E6: The Game Inside D&D (new revision)

[Kunimatyu]

Oddly, I'm less excited about E6 in True20, mostly because I can think of a couple immediate problem spots, and the strict feat categories (Warrior, Expert, Adept) with few prerequisites are harder to parse out.

 

[mfrench]

It cheapens the fighter's 4 feat advantage (1st, 2nd, 4th, and 6th). Eventually, he'll run out of interesting fighter feats.

People say this frequently, but I have a hard time believing it. One of the premises of the system is to introduce lots of new feats. Just looking at the Complete series, there are great tactical feats (Combat Brute, Shock Trooper, Elusive Target), each with pre-reqs to take. Most people won't have the +6 BAB to ever qualify. You can round out a guy with Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes, Improved Init. I had a melee guy do this in one of my games: he got very versatile, so that in any situation he had something to do, even if the situation's parameters meant that his 'main shtick' wasn't appropriate.

If a player wants to be a fighter, couldn't a willing DM create or dig up other feats that suit the player's vision? A fighter remains the only option for wearing heavy armor and being in melee without being held to a strict code of ethics. He also remains the only class with tower field proficieny (others can get it, but then the fighter's another feat ahead, isn't he?).

 

[Kunimatyu]

People say this frequently, but I have a hard time believing it. One of the premises of the system is to introduce lots of new feats. Just looking at the Complete series, there are great tactical feats (Combat Brute, Shock Trooper, Elusive Target), each with pre-reqs to take. Most people won't have the +6 BAB to ever qualify. You can round out a guy with Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes, Improved Init. I had a melee guy do this in one of my games: he got very versatile, so that in any situation he had something to do, even if the situation's parameters meant that his 'main shtick' wasn't appropriate.

If a player wants to be a fighter, couldn't a willing DM create or dig up other feats that suit the player's vision? A fighter remains the only option for wearing heavy armor and being in melee without being held to a strict code of ethics. He also remains the only class with tower field proficieny (others can get it, but then the fighter's another feat ahead, isn't he?).

I really don't see how it'd be difficult for a Barbarian, say, to pick up all the feats you've described in a few "levels" after 6th. Giving the fighter Improved Crit + Greater Focus/Spec with prereq fighter level 6 -should- fix the problem, though.

 

[Ry]

Right, the half-orc barbarian can get them eventually, but the human fighter can get them first. I'm still not convinced the human or the fighter needs to get any special attention.

 

[Koewn]

Ry, I've proposed a one-shot to my group, we'll see how it goes over. E6 with a slightly simplified True Sorcery, in a couple months.

They're about 10 1/2th level or so now.

I'm going to whip up a bunch of pregens; and I'm wanting to present that same level of ability, in so much as it's possible. An earlier post suggested 5 feats=1 CR, I'm looking at about a 4.5 CR increase over 6th level, so 22 feats?

Sound right?

I'm probably looking at 3 players for this one, and going with the tried and true "big bad guy plus lots of mooks" method. Bit of a dungeon crawl, probably.

So, with mooks...should the assumption be that X amount of 1st level mooks being a problem for a 3 person party at 6th be the same amount of problem at E6+22?

(The current party is all half/quarter casters, so the lack of big-boom spells is already something I am used to, I'm mainly speaking melee.)

 

[Ry]

You will need more mooks, or better tactics for the same mooks. I'd say double the number you would think of for a 6th level party; with 20 feats (especially gained all at once rather than organically in game), I wouldn't be surprised if you see Reaching Raging Whirlwind Great Cleaving with a glaive.

Also, show off other things you can manage along with the mooks; give the mooks higher ground, roll barrels full of burning oil down at them, and try to take advantage of range.

 

[wraith428]

New Spells

Have you give any thought to how classes with dedicated/restricted spell lists can advance their spell knowledge. I'm talking Warmage, Dread Necromancer and Beguiler types. You presented a feat to expand known spells for Sorcerer types, but was wondering your thoughts for these classes?

 

[DogBackward]

Just allow them to take the same feat as the Sorceror, but restrict their spells known. Beguilers get Enchantment and Illusion, Warmages get Conjuration and Evocation, and Dread Necromancers get Necromancy. Easy.

 

[Ry]

Dog's suggestion sounds good to me.

Nifelhein, FYI another guy sent me a .pdf version of the file, I'll post it here after I get a chance to do some revisions on it.

 

[Kunimatyu]

Just allow them to take the same feat as the Sorceror, but restrict their spells known. Beguilers get Enchantment and Illusion, Warmages get Conjuration and Evocation, and Dread Necromancers get Necromancy. Easy.

I'd agree, though I'd restrict warmages to Evocation, since Conjuration includes teleportation and summoning as well.