E6: The Game Inside D&D (with PDFs!)

[joela]

Re: Using PrC as NPC classes

rycanada, would love your take on E6 and using PrC as regular classes:

Using PrC as NPC classes

 

[Ry]

I'd be more likely to create prestige feats and have the NPCs take those. One of the things about using E6 is that you can obey the RAW and still get some great effects. IMO, If I was going to get down to the nitty-gritty of comparing PrCs with Classes, or tweaking the races, or changing how the classes work, I might as well go all the way and make my own RPG to taste.

 

[Ry]

Right now I'm interested in capstones most of all - we're talking E6 here, not GE6 or AE7 or E8. What do you guys think are good capstones for Wizards, Sorcerers, and Clerics?

 

[joela]

prestige feats

I'd be more likely to create prestige feats and have the NPCs take those.

Prestige feats?

 

[Kunimatyu]

Right now I'm interested in capstones most of all - we're talking E6 here, not GE6 or AE7 or E8. What do you guys think are good capstones for Wizards, Sorcerers, and Clerics?

In many respects the "additional 3rd level slot" feats are capstones for these guys, and given the number of metamagic options they have availabe via normal metamagic, the Swift Metamagic feat, and Arcane Thesis/Divine Metamagic, I'm not sure they need true capstone feats.

The only "capstone" feats that could really apply would be feats that grant the ability to cast a certain (non-broken) 4th level spell once per day. Restoration has already been mentioned, and I think Wall of Fire would be a good choice as well, along with possibly the alignment-smite spells (Holy Smite, Chaos Hammer, etc.).

I'm rambling a little -- one more thing: the Cleric capstone feat already exists, and it's the ability to pick up an extra domain, vis-a-vis Shazman's feats that you already have listed. For Sorc/Wizards, Arcane Thesis really is their capstone feat, since it lets them enhance one of their existing spells to a degree no one else can(for instance, an Arcane Thesis: Scorching Ray allows for 2 rays, since you get another ray at CL 7). Heh, for some real nastiness, Split Ray that spell(non-swift), for a level 3 spell that does 12d6 fire no save, provided you succeed on three ranged touch attacks.

 

[oldlurker]

E6 Multi class clarification

Old gamer, since 75 with the D&D boxed set, and long time lurker. I got back into the 3rd and 3.5 ed and played a couple of times but was disillusioned with the increased, game-slowing complexity of upper level play and the pain involved with being a DM. I have been casting around looking for a fix, True20, C&C, etc. but found E6 to be the best alternative for running the games that I prefer. Thanks for contributing this approach.

The only question that I have involves multiclasses: If 6th level is the suggested max level, couldn't characters continue to top out additonal classes to 6th level? It would seem logical, from a setting viewpoint, that longer lived races could be truly diversified with multiple 6th level classes. I accept that the cap may have been placed at a total of 6 levels but capping it in that way seems problematic to the player who asserts that his 5th level fighter, 1st level wizard still has more room for growth when compared to the 6th level wizard in the party.

I have considered that the 'Laws of reality' may limit just what a pc can achieve and that using gestalt classes with 2 level steps (a la 6 fighter, 4 level wizard, 2 level rogue) may work for any group that I may play with. I was just wondering what Enworlders may think of this. If it has been convered in another thread, sorry for the repitition.

 

[Kunimatyu]

The way I would handle the above problem is to let the Wizard1/Fighter5 take another level of Wizard if he wants...but his newfound magical prowess comes at a cost to his fighting skills, and he's now a Wizard 2/Fighter4, as you simply can't, as a mortal, be both the best caster and the best fighter in the world -- something's got to give.

Essentially, you're allowing him to retrain a class level (you can find exact rules on retraining classes in Player's Handbook II -- a phenomenal book, probably the best non-core book WotC has released for 3.5).

 

[Ry]

I'm very sympathetic to that approach, oldlurker (and btw, welcome to EN World). My original concept for E6 (back in '01-02) was something like that; up to six, then gestalt out. But I found that trying to do so introduced a lot of accounting, and when the players had XP to spend it almost invariably went to feats because they were easier to use.

The way I'd approach it now, would be by allowing feats that helped a character move up from their multiclass to something more like gestalt. For example, a feat where a character gained "0" 2nd level spell slots if they have a few other magical capabilities. That might be imperfect as a gestalt approach but I think it would make the game fair to both single-classed characters who would rather stick with their specialty and multiclass characters who want to shore up both sides of their multiclassing. There's been a few mentions of retroactive-gestalting, as it were, but I have yet to see one that doesn't cause a lot of extra accounting figuring out what benefits a new retroactive-gestalt level grants.

That said, if someone comes up with a way, or figures out the wording of that feat chain, I'd be delighted to see it.

 

[der_kluge]

I keep forgetting to ask - what does the "E" in E6 stand for?

 

[Dragonblade275]

I keep forgetting to ask - what does the "E" in E6 stand for?

I think it stands for "Epic."