E6: The Game Inside D&D

[Ry]

Out of curiosity, and not to threadcrap on the general E6 system, but what about using the NPC classes for a less power-oriented, grittier game?

Could work; not really my style though. I think that would be a great way to run 2e and 1e modules in 3e, though. But I think if I tried to approach that question, I'd start with a little tinkering, then tinker more, then tinker more... and of course, there isn't the CL6th limit like in E6 policing magic item acquisition.

My main thing is: I've gotten this to work, and I think the approach has generated some interest, so at least here I'm going to keep it up.

 

[Ry]

The notes you made on The Shackled City showed that a lot of the enemies at higher levels would have to be rewritten to use E6. And, though I like to spend time working on DnD, I don't want to have to rewrite published adventures to make them work with the system that I'm using.

Fair enough. The flip side is to use published adventures that go in the 1 to 10 range instead of 1 to 20. Have you run characters all the way to 20 before?

No one has achieved anything more powerful than 6th level plus bonus feats.

Another way of putting it: Mortals have conquered nations, battled demons, and discovered powerful magics. But the rules we use to show how they did that don't include Wishes, Ressurections, and Astral Projection. I wouldn't even put it in terms of "mortal power has waned" - just that your badass doesn't ignore poisons, and isn't merely annoyed when a mob of angry 1st-level commoners comes after him with pitchforks. That's not "mortal power waning" - that's "translating our favorite fantasy books and movies into an RPG"

 

[wolfpunk]

How rare is it for people to reach 6th level? Meaning is this version of d&d supposed to be significantly more deadly, making sixth level characters rare, and characters with a significant amount of feats truly epic?

 

[green slime]

green_slime, for Gorgnard are you sure all those items can be made under the cap?

That depends on how the "cap" is interpreted. As the official line is that the creator level as described in the DMG is only a guideline as to when the "average" such item would be created, in order to determine item saving throws, rather than a firm requirement for production of said item, yes.

But if you take the other, common, interpretation, that the CL is a requirement, rather than a guideline, then no.

 

[mfrench]

If I did that, it would be a "setting" in the same sense as Barakus or Ptolus - the kind of setting that is really an adventure, or the kind of adventure that doubles as a setting.

Thoughts?

I've been trying to work out an adventure path based mainly on the WotC free adventures, as well as a handful of published adventures and the dozen or so Dungeon issues that I have. Specifically, the stuff on G's Gauntlet Expanded and the post in How to Create Depth in Worldbuilding have been driving the development. I've been planning to start a new thread on it all weekend, but haven't got around to it yet.

 

[Dragonblade275]

Fair enough. The flip side is to use published adventures that go in the 1 to 10 range instead of 1 to 20. Have you run characters all the way to 20 before?

No. Not in 3rd edition. We played really high level play in AD&D first edition. The characters were very similar to some of the greater gods in Lengends & Lore when we finished up. WAY TO POWERFUL! But, we were kids having fun.

In 3rd edition, we haven't tried anything higher than 12th level. And, that was only one weekend and our 12th level fighter and paladin won a couple of balanced encounters before getting killed by a group of demons in some Norse-like icy labrynth.

Running characters and monsters at above 6th level in 3.5 likely means that I'll have the problem that you've discussed in previous threads: Not really knowing how to use the monsters right and not knowing what their abilities actually are without taking time to reference them. In The Shackled City, I'm taking quite a bit of time to examine all the monsters before hand. Most of the monsters we've faced so far (other than goblins) have been unusual ones for us. The Shackled City is our first 3.5 adventure that we plan to take all the way through to 20th level and possibly beyond.

 

[Dragonblade275]

Another way of putting it: Mortals have conquered nations, battled demons, and discovered powerful magics. But the rules we use to show how they did that don't include Wishes, Ressurections, and Astral Projection. I wouldn't even put it in terms of "mortal power has waned" - just that your badass doesn't ignore poisons, and isn't merely annoyed when a mob of angry 1st-level commoners comes after him with pitchforks. That's not "mortal power waning" - that's "translating our favorite fantasy books and movies into an RPG"

I really agree with you on that. I really think E6 is just what the doctor ordered for DnD. I just hope that I'm able to convince my players to give it a try.

 

[Dragonblade275]

How rare is it for people to reach 6th level? Meaning is this version of d&d supposed to be significantly more deadly, making sixth level characters rare, and characters with a significant amount of feats truly epic?

Wolfpunk,

Here is a somewhat lengthy but very good explanation of the answer to your question. It was posted in an earlier E6 thread.

D&D: Calibrating Your Expectations​

I really think this explains the beauty of E6 in great detail.

 

[wolfpunk]

Thanks, Dragonblade,that is a great article.


Question, has anyone thought of letting a character who takes levels in their favored class to gain one level in that class above the level 6 maximum? For example, a dwarf could be a level 7 fighter, a half orc could be a level 7 barbarian. Humans and Half-elves could take 1 extra level of whatever class they took at first level.

I know this would allow human and half-elf to access fourth level divine spells, and allow human, half-elf, and elf wizards access to fourth level arcane spells.

This could be handled a couple of ways. First option, fourth level slots are usable for meta-magic feats, this would work the same for both arcane and divine casters. A second option for wizards could be that they could cast the spell, but they would have to find the spell in some ancient tome in a dragon hoard or some such place, making fourth level spells truly rare.

This would allow to six new magical weapon qualities out of the DMG, none of which seem to be overly game killing.

 

[GrolloStoutfoam]

Wolfpunk, I really love that idea. My DM and I are trying to convince our group to use this system and I know their hesitance is a result that the other players just do not realize the rest of the world plays by the same rules. They believe we will be stuck at 6th level while the DM throws 10th level bad guy clerics at us. Ah if only everyone in the world saw things through my eyes (sarcasm btw, please no flames. )

I'm going to be sending everyone in the group the link to this thread and the calibrating D&D (that was phenomenal, thanks for finding that Dragonblade275). Makes sense Hercules is a 6th (or 7th) level fighter, 20 STR. A (demi)god among mortals.