E6: The Game Inside D&D

[Ry]

Sorry I haven't posted any statblocks or anything; they take a while to write up and most of my day today has been responding to these forums and working on the new introduction and FAQ.

In 5 days E6 has had four times the response that it had from August '04 to May '07.

 

[wolfpunk]

Well, you know what they say, timing is everything.

 

[green slime]

Submitted for your consideration, the current "epic" feats I'm considering. Please peruse and tell me what you think, this is for the new E6 document I'm working on (which at least to start will be just a new thread, but we'll see from there).

Artful Sorcery
Prerequisites: Character level 6, ability to cast spells of 2 different levels spontaneously.
Benefit: You gain two spells known - one for your highest level spells, and one for a lower level.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times.

Extended Sorcery
Prerequisites: Character level 6, spontaneous caster
Benefit: For a kind of magic you cast spontaneously, you gain two spell slots - one for your highest level spell slot, and one for a lower level slot.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times.

Extended Wizardry
Prerequisites: Character level 6, prepared caster
Benefit: For one kind of magic that you prepare, you gain one spell slot of any level.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times.

I don't like them.
Firstly, they exceed the similar kind of feats and abilities we have seen previously (Extra Slot, Extra Spell, Advanced Learning)
I also think granting two new spells per feat is too strong for a sorcerer, in comparisson to what other classes can achieve with a feat. The sorcerer is deliberately stifled in his spell selection, because of the power of spontaneous spell casting.

I think I'd prefer feats along this line:

Master of the Mystical
Prerequisites: 6th level spellcaster, 9 ranks Knowledge (arcana) or 9 ranks Knowledge (Nature) or 9 ranks Knowledge (Religion)
Benefit: By strenuous mental exercises, and through study of eldritch signs/esoteric mystical texts/ you have expanded the number of spells per day you can cast. You gain two spell slots - one 1st level spell slot, and one 2nd level spell slot.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times.

Supreme Master of the Mystical
Prerequisites: 6th level spellcaster, 9 ranks Knowledge (arcana) or 9 ranks Knowledge (Nature) or 9 ranks Knowledge (Religion), Master of the Mystical
Benefit: By strenuous mental exercises, and through study of eldritch signs/esoteric mystical texts/ you have expanded the number of spells per day you can cast. You gain one 3rd level spell slot.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. You may not take this feat more times than you have taken Master of the Mystical.

Ultimate Master of the Mystical
Prerequisites: 6th level spellcaster, 9 ranks Knowledge (arcana) or 9 ranks Knowledge (Nature) or 9 ranks Knowledge (Religion), Master of the Mystical, Supreme Master of the Mystical
Benefit: Your studies of ancient texts and outsider contacts have allowed you to exceed normal mortal bounds. You gain a spell slot of a level one higher than you can cast prior to taking this feat. You do not gain access to higher level spells with this feat. This slot may only be used to fuel metamagic spells.

And then the ordinary "Extra Spell" "Advanced Learning" feats.

 

[Ry]

Hmm... thinking about this... and the fact that it's hard to write feats that aren't copies of WotC's feats that we agree on.

I'm stuck between two possibilities:

On one hand, there's the concept of a "complete" E6. That's something I could hand off as a product because it's d20/OGL friendly but doesn't use any non-OGL WotC material. That's what's had me trying to write around WotC on these feats.

On the other hand, there's E6 as a fan game, that unabashedly references WotC material and explains how to use duskblades, warforged, 9 swords manoeuvres, and whatever else we're interested in using.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

But I'm not a really big fan of experience points, personally. If I were to use this system, I'd probably abstract feat gain the same way I would level gain. That is, if the PCs have accomplished something major, they gain a level next time they have some down time.

I strongly suggest you takea look at Chronicles of Ramlar. www.whitesilverpublishing.com has downloads that will allow you to use their "XP" system with E6.
Basically, you have something like 5 circles on your character sheet. You then yourself fill out the circles with a goal or motivation, belief etc., such as "I will become the scourge of the undead" or "All orcs must be destroyed". When you complete anything that has to do with this goal, you get a mark and with ten marks you gain a benefit - in this case a feat.
You always get marks in one circle for participating in the game.

It's pretty neat.

 

[Koewn]

I'm stuck between two possibilities:

On one hand, there's the concept of a "complete" E6.

On the other hand, there's E6 as a fan game.

It all depends on where you envision this going.

If you want to let this become a "product"; either with monetary benefits or not, and see books/PDFs with "E6" logos, you'll want to leave it all OGL/d20.

I'd think if the "complete E6" were set in stone and finished, the "fan game" portion of it would resolve itself forthwith.

The "complete E6 as a product", and then the "here's how I'd add in the rest of WotC's stuff as a hobby" can both be provided by you seperately, I'd think, without issue. One just can't be profitted upon.

Finally, with the mass of d20 that exists, and multiple takes on "Epic" play, even, there's a lot of ideas thrown around in the thread that while they may be inspired from WotC rules, they may not be either original to WotC or be "obvious" in the context of a d20 ruleset that's hard-capped at a certain level other than 20th. (or would be easily derived from other OGL rules).

To put that another way, your content that I've read, I'm not seeing anything that goes very far out from the SRD, but things are a little scattered in this thread right now so I can't commit to that 100%.

 

[Ry]

If we went with the idea of 2 versions, there'd be a product E6 and a fan e6.

My question then is: what needs to go in the E6 as a product?

Obviously there's the rule itself; there's one paragraph. There's the FAQ, which is much, much, bigger.

But I have the sense that there's a need for some more feats to provide for the rest of the advancement system.

 

[joela]

E6: The Product

My question then is: what needs to go in the E6 as a product?

Obviously there's the rule itself; there's one paragraph. There's the FAQ, which is much, much, bigger.

Personally, I'd want more discussion/examples/breakdowns on incorporating high-end options into E6; i.e., writing up a lich (as you suggested over at rpg.net), the use of legacy items, using incantations to access high-level spells, translating published high-level adventures into E6, etc.

How to emphasize teamwork and investigation into E6. One thought is giving free skill ranks to PCs form those teams in PH2 (?). I'd also make more use of skill synergies. There's a product, whose name escapes me at the moment, that stats skill synergies up to 20 ranks or so. It would be interesting to incorporate a similar feature in E6 for class skills (max 9 ranks).

 

[Sqwonk]

2) Put your cap at 8th level instead of 6th if you like those abilities

Ha. Maybe my head cold is affecting me worse than I thought. When I first started reading about E6, I really like it exept.
I like to start at 3rd level and think the sweet spot goes to about level 12.

But your point above just crystallized it. I could play E8 w/o a ton of modifications.
Awesome !

 

[Sqwonk]

Personally, I'd want more discussion/examples/breakdowns on incorporating high-end options into E6; i.e., writing up a lich (as you suggested over at rpg.net), the use of legacy items, using incantations to access high-level spells, translating published high-level adventures into E6, etc..

Isn't the point of E6 that the "high end" goes away? 6th level is very high and then you are epic from 7-10th level.