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Earthstrength Warden multiclass
- Thread starter Flipguarder
- Start date
Flipguarder
First Post
I took the khopesh since its the only one handed weapon that works as an axe and a blade. I was totally prepared to take the superior weapon prof feat to use it, but its military so theres no need.
I understand the benefit of the feat in most cases. But Im in an odd case here. I need at least 1 feat that I use due to my weapon. And blade opportunist works really well in this build. I guess a bastard sword could be effective. But the only problem is I'd block myself off from getting any axe feats in the future.
Overall I do think a bastard sword would work better with this build currently, I can always retrain.
I understand the benefit of the feat in most cases. But Im in an odd case here. I need at least 1 feat that I use due to my weapon. And blade opportunist works really well in this build. I guess a bastard sword could be effective. But the only problem is I'd block myself off from getting any axe feats in the future.
Overall I do think a bastard sword would work better with this build currently, I can always retrain.
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Khopesh is legitimate mostly because damage is not an earthstrength warden's worry, the biggest detriment is that its only +2 proff (i think?). That's worse than any damage loss, but not going to sink your ship. My warden uses a bastard sword, and i've considered down grading to longsword for the extra feat, i doubt it would change my damage out put much and my defensiveness wouldn't suffer much either. Your tactics sound similar to my dwarven warden's tactics, and it works pretty well. Get in the middle of the pack, and mark everyone. In general, i work on locking down the toughest monster(s) that our strikers aren't focusing on (they're ranged) so they can kill their target without heat from anyone else. then in the mop up phase of the fight, i nail down stragglers so they they don't deal damage to anyone but me (we have no leader 
so i try to make sure the only one that uses surges is me )
so i try to make sure the only one that uses surges is me )
Flipguarder
First Post
There were are a lot of considerations for me in this character.
The party is me an invoker, a bard and a rogue, so outputting damage is going to be an issue for this group. I figure the combo of the bard and I can get a lot of opportunity attacks so my basic melee attack damage is a concern (due to the lack in damage we may have).
From what I can see, the Warden is much better at defending against melee enemies than ranged artillery/controllers, so mobility and a high to hit (because melee enemies tend to have higher ac's) is also going to be an issue.
Also I was having a problem choosing effective feats which is the reason I took the khopesh to begin with. But with my focus on opportunity attacks and a few feats multiclassing into barbarian, thats no longer an issue.
When you get down to it, Im not sure if the bastard sword prof feat is worth the extra possible 2 damage I get. I supposed Ill try a few sessions with it and see if I get as many AoO as I think i will.
The party is me an invoker, a bard and a rogue, so outputting damage is going to be an issue for this group. I figure the combo of the bard and I can get a lot of opportunity attacks so my basic melee attack damage is a concern (due to the lack in damage we may have).
From what I can see, the Warden is much better at defending against melee enemies than ranged artillery/controllers, so mobility and a high to hit (because melee enemies tend to have higher ac's) is also going to be an issue.
Also I was having a problem choosing effective feats which is the reason I took the khopesh to begin with. But with my focus on opportunity attacks and a few feats multiclassing into barbarian, thats no longer an issue.
When you get down to it, Im not sure if the bastard sword prof feat is worth the extra possible 2 damage I get. I supposed Ill try a few sessions with it and see if I get as many AoO as I think i will.
Bastard sword is an average +1 damage (or close enough for these purposes) over a longsword [5.5 vrs 4.5] for each successful strike, so equivalent to the Weapon Focus (heavy blades) feat [fancy that].
Obryn
Hero
That comparison fails as soon as you add multiple-[W] powers into the mix.
Superior Weapon Proficiency is pretty much always better than Weapon Focus at Heroic tier. In Paragon and Epic, this can sometimes change up - for some superior weapons, including the bastard sword, it will be slightly worse than Weapon Focus for At-Wills - but I'd still go with it first, regardless, because it pays dividends on Encounter and Daily powers.
With that said, I think Bastard Sword is the least-exciting superior weapon out there.
-O
Flipguarder
First Post
"Flipguarder take a superior weapon they are better"
Ok i think ill take the bastard sword!
"I think Bastard Sword is the least-exciting superior weapon out there."
How can I please you. What blade should I take in your opinion?
Ok i think ill take the bastard sword!
"I think Bastard Sword is the least-exciting superior weapon out there.
"How can I please you. What blade should I take in your opinion?
Eric Finley
First Post
The garrote? MC Monk (ask your DM to simply let you gain Monk Unarmed Strike from this feat, plus an appropriate skill)? The whip is definitely among the best of the list.
Oh, you mean for damage? Triple-headed flail, waraxe, and craghammer (all from the AV) are all extremely comparable, damage-wise; trading +1 to attack for +1 damage contained-within-the-W is a matter of preference, IMO. (By the math, assuming you'll tend to hit on around a 10, +1 to attack is worth about +10% to damage. So if you're gaining, on average, +1 per [W], then these guys tend to stay reasonably close to parity with one another as the [W]s rack up over levels.)
Reskin a craghammer as a prized bigass shillelagh (wood club) from some kind of exotic thorn tree, or maybe from a petrified forest or something, and you've got a fairly perfect Warden weapon IMO. (A whip made of thorny vine would make an awesome backup weapon with reach, to go with it.)
Oh, you mean for damage? Triple-headed flail, waraxe, and craghammer (all from the AV) are all extremely comparable, damage-wise; trading +1 to attack for +1 damage contained-within-the-W is a matter of preference, IMO. (By the math, assuming you'll tend to hit on around a 10, +1 to attack is worth about +10% to damage. So if you're gaining, on average, +1 per [W], then these guys tend to stay reasonably close to parity with one another as the [W]s rack up over levels.)
Reskin a craghammer as a prized bigass shillelagh (wood club) from some kind of exotic thorn tree, or maybe from a petrified forest or something, and you've got a fairly perfect Warden weapon IMO. (A whip made of thorny vine would make an awesome backup weapon with reach, to go with it.)
Obryn
Hero
Eh? Whatever you'd like to take!"Flipguarder take a superior weapon they are better"
Ok i think ill take the bastard sword!
"I think Bastard Sword is the least-exciting superior weapon out there.
How can I please you. What blade should I take in your opinion?
All I'm saying is that I love superior weapons. I just love bastard swords less. Is that so wrong?
Honestly, bastard sword is great if you have a lot of multi-[W] powers. If you are mostly using at-wills, weapon focus may serve you better over time. That's if it's either-or; personally, I'd go with both but that's just how I roll.
-O
Flipguarder
First Post
Yeah its fine Obryn, but a few points:
1. Wardens aren't really about damage, the highest multiplier on a power is 4[W] so the bastard sword really isnt that much of an improvement over the longsword. Many of our attacks are also burst with 1[W] or 2 [W] at paragon and epic levels.
2. I have an opportunity attack build currently going so in addition to 1 [W] being more common than it would be with most characters, I need a blade weapon. It just seems to me that for 1-handed blades bastard sword is just the best... If feats isnt an issue.
3. At the end of the day I think if Im going for a damage boost, my overall damage is going to be more served by weapon focus heavy blade, than superior weapon prof - bastard sword. Since from a d8 to a d10 is just a possible 2 damage boost while in paragon path weapon focus is a constant +2 damage. Even at epic where I would get 2 [W] , weapon focus gets a boost too. So at epic the comparison is
2d8 + 3
2d10
I think I'd still take the first option.
1. Wardens aren't really about damage, the highest multiplier on a power is 4[W] so the bastard sword really isnt that much of an improvement over the longsword. Many of our attacks are also burst with 1[W] or 2 [W] at paragon and epic levels.
2. I have an opportunity attack build currently going so in addition to 1 [W] being more common than it would be with most characters, I need a blade weapon. It just seems to me that for 1-handed blades bastard sword is just the best... If feats isnt an issue.
3. At the end of the day I think if Im going for a damage boost, my overall damage is going to be more served by weapon focus heavy blade, than superior weapon prof - bastard sword. Since from a d8 to a d10 is just a possible 2 damage boost while in paragon path weapon focus is a constant +2 damage. Even at epic where I would get 2 [W] , weapon focus gets a boost too. So at epic the comparison is
2d8 + 3
2d10
I think I'd still take the first option.
