Easy Prone Combat Questions

[pogre]

Here is the situation:

PC gets overrun by a Frost Giant. Two other Frost Giants threaten the square.

The players were trying to tell me that he could use tumble skill to stand up and avoid an attack of opportunity. I ruled he could not. Who was right? A SRD reference would be great.


Related question: I allowed the prone PC to make a full attack the next round at -4 to all attacks. It seems a little counter-intuitive to me, but that's how the rules look to me - is that right?

Final question - the PC did not attempt this, but could he have tumbled from prone out of the threatened areas (DC15) per threatened square crossed - or do you have to stand first to tumble?

 

[Thanee]

Who was right?

You were right. I think it was even explained somewhere (either a newer rulebook, CAdv maybe? or the FAQ? I think CAdv was it...), that the free standing up with Tumble (DC 35 IIRC) still provokes AoO. You cannot use the normal Tumble (DC 15), because you are not moving you are standing up, which is different.

Related question: I allowed the prone PC to make a full attack the next round at -4 to all attacks. It seems a little counter-intuitive to me, but that's how the rules look to me - is that right?

Yeah, that's right as well.

Final question - the PC did not attempt this, but could he have tumbled from prone out of the threatened areas (DC15) per threatened square crossed - or do you have to stand first to tumble?

You have to stand up first, because you cannot move, if you are prone.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I believe, though I'm not positive (because I don't use the rules) that there's an epic use of Tumble that allows standing without provoking an AoO.

And, yes, a full attack at -4 to all attacks is correct.

Who said that you can't move while prone? It's not listed under "Prone" in the condition summaries, and I'm pretty sure I've read that you can crawl at, I think, one-quarter speed.

Found it (in the SRD): "Crawling -- You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl."

 

[Scharlata]

Edit: Obsolete post; Jeff found it.

 

[Thanee]

Who said that you can't move while prone? It's not listed under "Prone" in the condition summaries, and I'm pretty sure I've read that you can crawl at, I think, one-quarter speed.

Found it (in the SRD): "Crawling -- You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl."

Sorry for being unclear, but I meant a normal move, which is required for Tumble to be used...

Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement

You cannot tumble while crawling (which is a completely pointless action, anyways).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Infiniti2000]

You were right. I think it was even explained somewhere (either a newer rulebook, CAdv maybe? or the FAQ? I think CAdv was it...), that the free standing up with Tumble (DC 35 IIRC) still provokes AoO. You cannot use the normal Tumble (DC 15), because you are not moving you are standing up, which is different.

I'm not aware of the rule, but it might be wrong. Free actions "rarely" incur AoO's. If you can stand up as a free action for whatever Tumble check, it would likely not provoke an AoO. Instead, I think a Tumble DC 35 to stand up as a move action without provoking an AoO would be a better rule. Maybe DC (something higher) to do so as a free action without provoking an AoO.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I'm not aware of the rule, but it might be wrong. Free actions "rarely" incur AoO's. If you can stand up as a free action for whatever Tumble check, it would likely not provoke an AoO.

Not provoking an AoO is not a characteristic of free actions. It is specifically called out as applying to many free actions, however.

At any rate, the rules on using a DC 35 Tumble check to stand as a free action actually specify that it still provokes an AoO.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Just a question..

I was reading the above and had a thought.. does the RAW specify that you cannot tumble while standing from prone or crawling?

If it does not, than applying the rule of 'Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement ' to these 'normal' movements would mean you could use a full round action for either crawling or standing without drawing an AoO.
Not that anybody would want to do that.

But, one could consider the Tumble DC of 35 to be drop the action cost one level, from Move action to Free action, ort from Double Move to Move action.

just a wandering thought, not particulary a good one

 

[Infiniti2000]

Not provoking an AoO is not a characteristic of free actions. It is specifically called out as applying to many free actions, however.

That's why I put "rarely" in quotes, which is specifically written in the rules. "Free actions rarely incur attacks of opportunity." So, it's somewhat of a characteristic, but not always.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That's why I put "rarely" in quotes, which is specifically written in the rules. "Free actions rarely incur attacks of opportunity." So, it's somewhat of a characteristic, but not always.

Right. But basing your decision as to whether a particular free action provokes based on that line is erroneous.