Easy question, Coup de Grace & PA ??

[Dwarmaj]

I guess another question is whether or not you can use Power Attack during a grapple. Would your grapple check be decreased? It's not an attack roll or is it?

 

[Darklone]

No, it's not... and I wouldn't really do that either.

Just rambling: I do have a houserule about rolling to hit for CDG... you can only miss on a 1 though (immobile target and all that stuff)... The only time till now where a PC (cleric with crazily high Will save) got held, the fightertype who wanted to lop off his head with an axe rolled a crit miss, missed his check against failure and critted the buddy next to him who would have been next with the CDG

 

[Kemrain]

Benefit: On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

You don't make an attack roll on a Coup de Grace. Unless you make an attack roll, you can't Power Attack. However, a Held person is immoble, so they have a Dex of 0 (-5) and lose any Dodge bonuses, so hitting them isn't much of a problem. If you roll, and can miss, you should be able to. Power attack requires an attack roll.

- Kemrain the Weak.

 

[Dwarmaj]

Power Attack doesn't require an attack roll. The feat states that before you make any attack rolls you decide how much of your attack you're going to give up. Once it's done, all attack rolls (if there are any) have a penalty and any damage dealt gains an unnamed bonus. True, a CdG doesn't require an attack, but once Power Attack is declared, any damage dealt qualifies.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Just to make it perfectly clear. You might even use Power Attack in a round where do not actually intend to attack anyone.

And why would anyone do that? Because they might expect an AoO coming!

 

[Dimwhit]

Power Attack doesn't require an attack roll. The feat states that before you make any attack rolls you decide how much of your attack you're going to give up. Once it's done, all attack rolls (if there are any) have a penalty and any damage dealt gains an unnamed bonus. True, a CdG doesn't require an attack, but once Power Attack is declared, any damage dealt qualifies.

I'm going to disagree with you here and side with Kemrain.

Benefit: On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

You have to subtract a number from you attack number, and that number is added to damage. That implies to me that an attack roll is necessary in order to benefit from Power Attack. With a CDG, you don't make an attack roll, therefore you can't subtract from that attack and add to your damage.

Just my opinion, though.

 

[Thanee]

If you see it from a logical viewpoint, it doesn't make much sense to use PA on a CdG either, since it is a very precise strike, which takes time to aim and all that (full-round action), while PA is quite the opposite of a "precise strike".

But that has nothing to do with the actual rules.

The only rule, that might stand in the way of using PA that way is, as has been noted, that you have to deduct a number from your attack roll, which isn't possible on a CdG as their is no attack roll. Whether this is a hindrance or not, I leave for you to decide.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Tatsukun]

If you see it from a logical viewpoint, it doesn't make much sense to use PA on a CdG either, since it is a very precise strike, which takes time to aim and all that (full-round action), while PA is quite the opposite of a "precise strike".

I don't think a CdG is a percise strike at all. I think it is just a matter of taking you time. The way I see a CdG with a great axe is that you walk over to a helpless guy, line up, and chop his head off.

Think of a guy swinging at one of those “ring the bell” tough-man things at a carnival. You can take a really good swing if you have 6 seconds (full round action) are not being distracted (draws attacks of opportunity).

I may be wrong, is it written somewhere that a CdG is a percise strike? (real question, I don't know).

Thanks for the input people, this is great!

-Tatsu

 

[Saeviomagy]

You have to subtract a number from you attack number, and that number is added to damage. That implies to me that an attack roll is necessary in order to benefit from Power Attack. With a CDG, you don't make an attack roll, therefore you can't subtract from that attack and add to your damage.

Implies - how? It says - subtract the number from ALL attack rolls. Add the same number to ALL damage rolls.

All includes zero - if there are no attack rolls, subtracting the number from no attack rolls is subtracting it from all attack rolls.

If you wish to use your variety of implication, then using exactly the same logic, I could say that because it says you have to add a number to all damage rolls, it cannot be used if you do not make a damage roll.

So - if you miss all your attacks in a round, you can't use power attack.

But you have to decide BEFORE you make your attacks.

Reduceing your attack rolls and boosting your damage are two wholly seperate effects. One does not require the other in the context of power attack.

 

[Li Shenron]

I may be wrong, is it written somewhere that a CdG is a percise strike? (real question, I don't know).

Long debate...

I usually described CdG as being a precise strike rather than a powerful strike because it takes a full round action and provokes an AoO. But I can understand the opposite opinion (taking aim to deliver a more powerful blow).

I don't think it makes a big difference in practice, I have rarely seen someone survive a CdG, and even if he does, you can usually do another CdG in the next round.

However, I also think that if you want to use Power Attack, taking a normal attack with all the benefits of a helpless target (dex 0 and +4 to attack) is probably still very very favorable.