Easy question, Coup de Grace & PA ??

[Scion]

But I am glad I could amuse you.

always

But if you dont allow power attack, why allow sneak attack? Effectively sneak attack is even more deadly on a cdg than power attack could ever hope to be.

 

[RigaMortus]

If the reason for not allowing PA to be added to a CdG is because of the penalty to your attack, then what about feats that add pluses to your attack? Should they not be useable too?

 

[Trainz]

always

But if you dont allow power attack, why allow sneak attack? Effectively sneak attack is even more deadly on a cdg than power attack could ever hope to be.

You will note if you read all my posts in this thread (assuming you have nothing better to do) that not once did I take a position for or against the use of PA for CdG.

You make a valid observation, but there just isn't enough data IMO to lean one side or another. Like I said in my first post, I think that, until official errata tells us what to do, it's up to the DM to allow it or not.

Personally, IMC, no-one ever thought about using PA for CdG. If a player did request it, I probably would allow it, but that's not my official stance on the subject.

I should say something funny and witty now...

Why would someone need a Particle Accelerator for Completely Decomposed Granite ?

Oh I'm teh funney !

 

[Scion]

You will note if you read all my posts in this thread (assuming you have nothing better to do) that not once did I take a position for or against the use of PA for CdG.

You make a valid observation

I understand, however, I was merely asking for what you thought about it. Because it seems that the reasons to disallow one should pretty much disallow the other (too much damage, the save is too high). So if one is disallowed for whatever reason it seems odd to allow the other.

Just making comments and asking for opinions, no worries

 

[Tatsukun]

I don't really understand the argument that power attack makes the save DC too high argument. I think it has a lot more to do with the crit multiplier.

Since I am bored to tears today, let’s look at average CdG damage with different weapons; with and without different power attacks. Let’s assume a 3rd level fighter with a STR of 14.

Dagger (1D4+2)x2 = 9
(Can’t PA with a dagger)

Club (1D6+2)x2 = 11
(PA & Club) (1D6+2+3)x2 = 17
(wielded in two hands & PA) (1D6+3+6)x2 = 25

Longsword (1d8+2)x2 = 13
(PA & Longsword) (1D8+2+3)x2 = 19
(wielded in two hands & PA) (1D8+3+6)x2 = 27

Handaxe (1D6+2)x3 = 16.5
(PA & Handaxe) (1D6+2+3)x3 = 25.5
(wielded in two hands & PA) (1D6+3+6)x3 = 37.5

Greatsword (2D6+3)x2 = 20
(PA & Greatsword) (2D6+3+6)x2 = 32

Heavy Pick (1D6+2)x4 = 28
(PA & Heavy Pick) (1D6+2+3)x4 = 34
(Club wielded in two hands & PA) (1D6+3+6)x4 = 50

Greatmaul (2D6+3)x3 = 30
(PA & Greatmaul) (2D6+3+6)x3 = 48

Scythe (2D4+3)x4 = 32
(PA & scythe) (2D4+3+6)x4 = 56

It looks to me that it’s not really PA that’s making a huge difference all by itself, the crit multiplier and the handedness are having a big effect two. Of course, a high crit multiplier, AND PA, AND two handed, are making a huge difference. The handaxe is much better than the club just because of it’s x3 multiplier. It’s even a lot better than the Longsword, which does more damage (1D8).

The heavy Pick, with it’s x4 multiplier is better even than the greatsword (the weapon of choice for most every smart fighter).

The greatmaul and greatsword do more damage than the scythe, but the scythe’s x4 multiplier is making it the best CdG’er in the game.

All and all, I don't think it matters much game-wise. If you are hit with a CdG with a longsword (swiched to two hands before doing it) you have a fort save DC 29. For the average person, that's a 'save only on a 20' situation (that is, you save 5% of the time). If you allow PA, the DC is 37. You will still save only on a 20 (5%).

Since most fighters in D&D use either a longsword, bastard sword, or greatsword the CdG saves will usually be survived 'only on a 20'. I don't see a big difference except the round of high fives the player gets with his 56 point CdG with his scythe (which until that moment has been very substandard).

-Tatsu

 

[Trainz]

I understand, however, I was merely asking for what you thought about it. Because it seems that the reasons to disallow one should pretty much disallow the other (too much damage, the save is too high). So if one is disallowed for whatever reason it seems odd to allow the other.

Just making comments and asking for opinions, no worries

I wasn't fussed, don't worry.

I am inclined to allow PA, which would concord with your POV, but until the guy that wrote my gaming books makes a statement, I don't really need to take a stance.

After all, CdG situations rarely present themselves IMC.

 

[S'mon]

IMO - The way the PA feat is written, if you follow it precisely as written, and don't try to interpret the intention of the writer (ie, you take a black-letter law or literalist approach) then yes you can PA on a CDG. If you take a purposive approach, trying to decipher the writer's intent behind the words, it's arguable that they didn't intend to allow PA with a CDG.

Personally I allow PA with a CDG, that's the way it's written and the auto-kill result doesn't bother me . If you want to make CDGs survivable, disallowing PA would be fine too.