Eberron and the Book of Revelation

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

After re-reading Kai Lord's original post, I think I was fine with it up until this point:

I’m a Christian, and creating and playing heroic characters who draw power from the dragon in the earth while brandishing their marks named after the beast is a place I’m just not going to go. I don’t see any good coming out of that.

So what Kai Lord seems to be saying here is that instead of a min-maxing decision , playing a dragonmarked character is a moral decision. One that in Kai Lord's eyes is immoral. This is the point he loses me. If he wanted to talk about "Parallels between the Bible and Eberron" well, OK. But making a blanket moral statement about other players seems pretty hypocritical.

 

[Kai Lord]

So what Kai Lord seems to be saying here is that instead of a min-maxing decision , playing a dragonmarked character is a moral decision. One that in Kai Lord's eyes is immoral. This is the point he loses me. If he wanted to talk about "Parallels between the Bible and Eberron" well, OK. But making a blanket moral statement about other players seems pretty hypocritical.

I spoke about:

1. The parallels between the Book of Revelation and Eberron as I saw them.
2. What I thought about the parallels.
3. How it will affect my campaign.

And then asked others to do the same. I don't see how that breaks board rules or is hypocritical in the slightest.

Am I afraid that if I play a dragonmarked character that I won't be raptured and will suffer the mark of the beast when it happens, as I believe, in real life? Of course not. I just think its in extremely poor taste, and something that I'll have to one day answer for. Do I think it would cost me my salvation or status as a Christian? Not at all, but as I said, I'm not going down that road.

We all have lines that we won't cross. It isn't judgmental or hypocritical to make mention when a particular product features those lines. Imagine if a game product came out that featured a prestige class where one of the prereqs was that you had to be a human male with a halfling wife.

Now we know that halflings are just another mature, sentient race, but I think we both know what a human male/halfling female coupling might "look" like, and its kind of icky. That, like Eberron's dragonmarks, is just the kind of imagery I won't feature in my game, or associate with any characters I play.

I believe that having evil characters or imagery that heroes do battle against can make for interesting allegories. But attributing the heroes themselves with the imagery of something I consider evil isn't something I would enjoy, or want to be a part of my life. It has nothing to do with what I'll do "in real life," outside of the game, because at that point, the game itself becomes distasteful, and at the very worst, yes, even immoral. IMO.

 

[Pseudonym]

Well, that clinches it for me. As a Christian (at least someone trying to be) AND someone who had virtually no interest in setting before...that's 40 bux that'll be spent better at GenCon.

If you were already going to take a pass on Eberron then fine, but if you were on the fence don't let this thread seal the deal.

 

[Khairn]

Kai,

I believe your original post was handled with intelligence and sensetivity. I disagree with your conclusions on a personal, religious and gaming basis, but that is a discussion for a seperate thread. I saw nothing wrong with either how you presented your idea's or the "personal" conclusions you came to.

Its a fact that religion and mythology has had a MAJOR impact on the evolution of fantasy literature and gaming. It will continue to have an impact in the years to come. Denying that simple fact would be silly.

A number of posters on this board have taken exception to your post for various reasons. I havent read one that I felt was valid, and the flames and attacks have been unwarranted, IMHO.

To all those who feel inclined to lash out because someone brought up an interesting connection between Eberron and the Book of Revelations, and then shared his own "personal" views, please think again before you make even more attacks.

If you dont like the topic of this thread, please dont participate in it.

 

[Pseudonym]

It takes a certain amount of guts to put one's faith on the line like that, especially on boards like this. I commend your efforts.

Could you elaborate how this is in any way gutsy? I'm really failing to see it.

 

[Cam Banks]

Now we know that halflings are just another mature, sentient race, but I think we both know what a human male/halfling female coupling might "look" like, and its kind of icky.

Uh...

What?

Wow, KL, you seem to have all kinds of triggers.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[dvvega]

Its gutsy because of the flaming he has received. There are many on these boards who have professed to other religions and have not had any bad commentary, however mention you are a Christian and everything that could conceivably be taken as negative about your post will be.

Now that he's come out and made his statements, people wil make note of his writings with that fact in mind - oh it's KaiLord ... so the fact that magic is evil in his world really is because he's a stupid Christian ... well that idea is stupid then. Of course what I just wrote is simplified but the point is there.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

The "gutsy" would be publicly espousing a view that's likely to get yourself torn into.

I only know a little bit about Eberron, but from all that I've heard I think that the similarities between it and Revelations are probably either coincidental or subconscious on Keith Baker's part.

Kai Lord's not trying to convert the boards, and he's not saying that anyone who plays a Dragonmarked character is eeeeevvvviiiiillll. I think that he's just saying that he is not comfortable playing around with things that, in the real world, he thinks are wrong. It's just like someone not wanting to play, for example, a smoker or a drug addict, or (in an extreme case) a murderer. It has no effect you, but it might be something that you're not comfortable with.

I won't be playing in Eberron anyway, but that's because I don't particularly like the setting.

 

[Celtavian]

re

Its gutsy because of the flaming he has received. There are many on these boards who have professed to other religions and have not had any bad commentary, however mention you are a Christian and everything that could conceivably be taken as negative about your post will be.

Now that he's come out and made his statements, people wil make note of his writings with that fact in mind - oh it's KaiLord ... so the fact that magic is evil in his world really is because he's a stupid Christian ... well that idea is stupid then. Of course what I just wrote is simplified but the point is there.

Anyone who has read these boards for a while knows Kai Lord is a Christian. Kai Lord has been a member of these boards for along time, and he has never hidden his religion.

I just feel that in this instance he went a little far in his interpretations. If you can't see that, I don't know what else to tell you. I have already stated what I took issue with.

Why I take issue with it? Pretty simple. That is a pretty strong accusation in the Christian sense to state that someone has inadvertently created a setting glorifying Satanic imagery. I'm sure if Keith Baker sees this, he will be rather surprised. I don't know whether he will care or not, but he will definitely be surprised IMO.

You also need to understand that some folks may be holding back ripping Kai Lord because he has been a long time member of this board. I for one know Kai Lord is a nice guy who usually sticks to gaming or fantasy matters on the board. He has even been kind enough to sponsor a contest to have a member's character drawn by Todd Lockewood. Not a big deal, everyone has their belief. I just hope I don't see the original post pop up on some religious nuts board condemning Eberron as some kind of setting glorifying Satan.

 

[ayrwind]

well, do bear in mind that kai lord has not written his comments in such a way that he is advising others not to play dragonmarked characters or such. it is his choice, his own decision. there was no attempt to convince others to do the same that he did.

i see that some are worried that the mere mention of such a connection would convince others not to play or even buy eberron. this is reading too much into his posts as some has posted that kai lord is reading too much into the connection between eberron and revelations. at the end of the day, what we play and do not play in D&D is a highly personal decision. kai lord merely pointed out a possible relationship, and i believe that such an observation only empowers the players to make a decision.

this is a forum, where people can make observations and such. an observation was made and was put open for people to discuss. i would draw the line if he made a stand that all christians should not play dragonmarked characters for this reason, or eberron was satanic and all christians should not buy, etc. he did not do this and hence this is not a problem with me.

in addition, i do not feel that kai lord judged anyone. he made a personal decision about how he should approach the entire situation. that is his own decision. he can be a religious zealot or not, but he kept it to within his play group and there is not attempt in this forum to convince others to do likewise. to each his own i say.