Eberron-as corny as I think?

[Barak]

I'm actually sure you would be proven wrong.

Excellent! I'll take an Iron Golem, and take the equivalent number of Warforged, with regular equipment, and we'll fight it out.

 

[Odhanan]

Sure. Adventurers do that every day for breakfast!

Oh. And I updated my previous post by the way: I'm actually sure you would be proven wrong. Tenacity, audacity, willpower, dedication, hope are just a few of the strengths a non-sentient being cannot know. These advantages allow you go the extra mile to ensure there's a victory on the battlefield. But what the heck! I'm a humanist anyway, and I have no way to prove my stuff here on this board!

 

[Barak]

But warforged weren't/aren't/can't be created by PCs - they require access to/construction of an eldritch machine, an artifact-level 'thing' that essentially allows for DM fiat - more of a plot device than anything else, and the collaboration of tens to hundreds of individuals.

Were I a player in the scenario you lay out above, though, I'd probably be a bit miffed, but possibly mollified if a) it was fun, and b) you could point me towards some rules that backed up what you were doing that fit within the overarching, agreed-upon ruleset (although greater values of A would create a need for less and less B for me).

And I'm not reading your posts here as bashing, so no worries there. I thought the idea of warforged were out there too, but kind of neat, when I first heard of them (sort of a 'hmm, that's different, I wonder how they explain that one!' reaction). After I read through their backstory, I fell for them pretty hard!

I take issue with the "weren't created by PCs". Sure, by the Campaign setting book, they weren't. But whatever NPCs were involved back then, technically, could have been PCs.

See.. What I'm trying to say is that the background used to justify the existence of the Warforged would have been seen as overly "mean" or "extreme rat-bastardlyness" by the DM were the people involved back then had been PCs. Since they were, obviously, NPCs, it's handwaved. That sorta annoys me.

 

[Barak]

Sure. Adventurers do that every day for breakfast!

Oh. And I updated my previous post by the way: I'm actually sure you would be proven wrong. Tenacity, audacity, willpower, dedication, hope are just a few of the strengths a non-sentient being cannot know. These advantages allow you go the extra mile to ensure there's a victory on the battlefield. But what the heck! I'm a humanist anyway, and I have no way to prove my stuff here on this board!

You're getting outside of the discussion. We're talking War machines. -One- Iron Golem is better than the equivalent number of warforgeds with cheap equipment, or one warforged with equipment commensurate with the cost involved in creating whatever equipment you want. So house Carnith would have been better off making Iron Golems. Wouldn't have made for good PCs, though.

 

[shilsen]

I meant that the warforged creation story sounds hackneyed, not the entire setting.

I'm curious - could you give me an example of a creation story for the warforged that you wouldn't consider hackneyed? I've always regarded the warforged creation story as having a very logical progression, as well as providing serious roleplaying and adventure potential for individual characters, the PC group and the campaign world as a whole. Seems like a strongly win-win result, at least to me.

 

[Odhanan]

Barak, you're the one who's metagaming here, see? You're thinking in terms of the game. I'm not. I'm thinking in terms of war, and what is best for me as a Nation. I would be better off with exponentially adaptable warriors able of sentience than just an Iron Golem. That's all I'm telling you, and I'm not using metagame arguments to say it.

 

[Barak]

Barak, you're the one who's metagaming here, see? You're thinking in terms of the game. I'm not. I'm thinking in terms of war, and what is best for me as a Nation. I would be better off with exponentially adaptable warriors able of sentience than just an Iron Golem. That's all I'm telling you, and I'm not using metagame arguments to say it.

As the ruler of a Kingdom, I'd take a totally obedient, awesomely powerful Iron Golem over your "adaptable warriors" that my Golem could crush.

And while my Golem is busy doing that, I'd spend my time trying to buy out your sentient warforged, BTW. My Golem is uncorruptible, and non-charmable.

 

[Odhanan]

LOL You sank my battle ship!

Seriously, we sound like two kids arguing about who out of two He-Man characters would win! We ain't going to agree, my friend!

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I guess both of you missed my point, intentionally or not.

So we have house Carnath (or whatever) mass-manufacturing golems for the war effort. Eventually, somehow, they become sentient! Awesome! Warforged PCs! This is cool!

There was a slight misrepresentation above. The Creation Forges are eldritch machines that create living constructs.. not Golem's that 'accidently' gain sentience. Keith intentionally left the 'how' and 'why' out as having all the answers makes for a boring game.

My interpretation is that the Creation Forge actually re-incarnates instead of creating, bonding a living soul into an artificial body.


But you are right, if Keith didn't want a kewl new player race, he would not have bothered with Warforged, Shifters, or Khalastars... and we would have *yet another greyhawk* virtually indistinguishable from any other setting.

But.. that being said.. Okay, y'all folks are saying ya dont' like Eberron because of the Warforged.
Guess what, I don't like the Drow.. does this mean I wont play FR?

This thread is about opinions... regarding Eberron, I have mine. Formed after reading and playing in the setting.
You have your opinion, formed apparently without reading or playing the setting.

Funny the way that goes.

But, I forsee this thread will eventually dwindle farther down the path of sillyness and end up getting locked.. so I think I will go back to lurking in House Rules

 

[Barak]

LOL You sank my battle ship!

Seriously, we sound like two kids arguing about who out of two He-Man characters would win! We ain't going to agree, my friend!

Doesn't stop me from being AWESOMELY RIGHT!

Seriously, it highlights my whole problem with the warforged. Ignoring the need to have them as PC-playable race, and ignoring weird "accidents" that any PC would whine if it happened to them, they make no sense, since, using simple RAW, you can have much better warmachines for the same price.